Episode 94: Sue Ismiel, Founder and Global Beauty Ambassador of Nad’s and Natalie Ismiel, Beauty Expert and Ambassador at Nad’s

This episode welcomes Natalie and Sue Ismiel of Nad’s to their first podcast recording. The former is the inspiration behind the brand, the latter its creator. This daughter-mother duo takes us back 30 years to the creation of Nad’s, the “green goo” made for hair removal, and its metamorphosis into a global beauty hit thanks to its efficacy and Sue’s charismatic infomercials.

Hear how they’ve kept the brand family owned for 3 decades and 3 generations through the power of adaptability, expansion, and gratitude. And if you’ve ever wondered what Nad’s means, well, they’ll tell you that, too.

Dan Hodgdon
AnnouncerWelcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® hosted by Jodi Katz, Founder and Creative Director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi KatzHey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. I'm so excited to be sitting with Sue and Natalie Ismiel. They're the co-founders of Nad’s. Welcome to Where Brain Meet Beauty.
Sue IsmielThank you. We're glad to be here.
Natalie IsmielThanks so much.
Jodi KatzI'm so excited that you're here. You're in from Australia.
Sue IsmielWe are.
Jodi KatzRight. You just arrived yesterday.
Natalie IsmielLast night. Yes. Yesterday.
Jodi KatzDid you do anything very New York-y yesterday?
Sue IsmielNot at all. We had to get over the jet lag. It was a long flight. The body and the mind had to adjust to the new time zone. So, we had to do a bit of workout, yoga, exercise, meditation, to get ready for the chat this morning.
Natalie IsmielYes.
Jodi KatzGreat. Well, Natalie, what are you gonna do today? How are you going to spend your day?
Natalie IsmielWell, we're excited to be here, firstly. Because our first podcast with WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY®, so kicking it off here. And then, we've got a few desk site appointments, to follow. But, I'm excited to check out Time Square, to be honest, after everything else. And, do a little shopping. See the sights of New York.
Jodi KatzDo you have anything planned, Sue, that's very New York-ish?
Sue IsmielNot really. I'm just going to leave the fun decisions to my daughter, and I'll just follow her lead.
Natalie IsmielIf you have any recommendations of places to eat, let us know.
Jodi KatzYeah. I mean, I love it when people come here, and they do the tourist things. I think it's really fun and special. So, yes, we can make a list after the recording.
Natalie IsmielSounds good.
Jodi KatzSue, I know this is your first podcast recording ever. We're so thrilled that you're doing it with us.
Sue IsmielThank you.
Jodi KatzDoes it feel different, yet, than another type of interview?
Sue IsmielNo, not really. I mean, obviously I've done interviews in the past, radio, TV, interviews on all media mediums. But, podcast is the first. So, I'll just wait and see, but it doesn't feel any different to anything else.
Jodi KatzWhat's cool about podcasting, at least our show, and a lot of the shows that I like, is that they’re really evergreen. It's not news. It's not published, in that it's read, and then it's over. Like, people come back, and they take their time, and they listen to the shows that they want, when they want to. So, somebody could be listening to this episode two years after it launches. And they will feel the same feelings that people felt when it first launched. Right, because the content is so evergreen. Everyone just wants to hear their story. Your story's your story.
Natalie IsmielThat's right.
Jodi KatzSo, let's get into that story. So, Sue, what is Nad’s?
Sue IsmielWell, Nad’s is the name of a product that I created almost 30 years ago, in my kitchen. It is also the nickname of my oldest daughter, Nad’sine. So, that's Nad’s. I created it for Natalie, my middle daughter, who is sitting here right next to me.
Jodi KatzWhat was the inspiration? Why did Natalie need your help?
Sue IsmielWhen Natalie was a very young girl, and she wanted to be a model. Very pretty, as you can see. But the unwanted dark, thick hair on the arms and the legs, just got in the way. So, I became obsessed about solving her problem. I turned my kitchen into a laboratory, and, with no scientific qualifications, I became this mad scientist, and I experimented in my kitchen for about 12 months. I used my family members as lab rats. At the end of the 12 months, I came up with a green goo that worked like magic. I ended up naming it Nad’s, after my oldest daughter, Nad’sine. We've just had so much fun taking it to the world, over the past three decades.
Jodi KatzSo, Natalie, you were a pre-teen at the time?
Natalie IsmielI was younger than a teen, yeah. So, in primary school, we call it back home, when it all started. I was quite self-conscious of the dark hair, as mom mentioned. Being Mediterranean background, I've got dark hair and all this pale skin.
Jodi KatzRight. So, were your classmates all lighter hair? Not this dark of hair?
Natalie IsmielThey were quite fair, particularly the Australian girls. You know, the blonde hair. Not that they actually ever noticed, it was more me that was quite self-conscious. I was like, "Oh, gosh. I'm so hairy. What can I do with this?" Yeah. It was quite ... I think it did affect my confidence, back then, and self-esteem. So, I was super excited when the product worked.
Jodi KatzI remember when I was at day camp, and I was hanging out with girls that were a year or two older than me, and they were shaving their legs at the time. I might have been ... yeah, like, I don't know, 10, or 11, or something, and I told my mom I wanted to shave my legs, and I remember her being totally mortified. You know? It probably feels too young, whenever it happens.
Sue IsmielAbsolutely. Yes.
Natalie IsmielThat was the thing. With my skin, it was so delicate. So, if I was trying other things, like razors, or creams, I was just reacting. I'd get this red reaction, or irritation. So, nothing was really working at the time.
Sue IsmielWell, I wouldn't let Nad’sine touch the razor. That was a definite no, no. Because if you shave your legs, or your arms, the results might disappear for a day or two, but it will come back thicker.
Natalie IsmielIt will grow back faster.
Sue IsmielAnd all the products on the shelf back then, and there weren't many of them. There was the cream bleaches, there was the depilatory creams, and all these products really interfered with her sensitive skin. So, I had no option but to create my own. That would be safe to use on her sensitive, delicate skin.
Jodi KatzBut not every mom would decide to take it upon themselves to turn their kitchen into a lab. Discovery, right. So, you said you had no option, but there must have been something in you that was really ready to invent, and discover, and play.
Sue IsmielThere must have been something, because the drive was unstoppable. It was like an obsession. It consumed my entire being. All I could think about was, how do I solve my daughter's unwanted hair problem? It's what I went to bed with. It's what I woke up with. That was the force that enabled me to just keep going, regardless of how any failures I had along the way. I just kept going. I don't know where that drive came from. We don't know where they call it entrepreneurship, they call it madness, whatever it was.
Natalie IsmielIt was there.
Sue IsmielIt was unstoppable.
Jodi KatzLet's unravel this a little bit. You had, 3 daughters, at the time?
Sue IsmielThree daughters.
Jodi KatzAnd, you're the middle. So, there's one younger than you.
Natalie IsmielYounger and older.
Jodi KatzSo, it's not like you had nothing to do, right? It's not like you had to fill your time.
Sue IsmielExactly.
Jodi KatzDid you have another job, at the time?
Sue IsmielI was working, as well. I was working as a medical record officer, at a private hospital. So, I'd go to work in the morning, and when I'd come back home, first thing, instead of cooking dinner, I'd actually be experimenting with this formula.
Natalie IsmielOn the stove.
Sue IsmielOn the stove. That was my life.
Jodi KatzOkay. So, 30 years ago, you weren't Googling the answers. It was way harder. So, where did your investigation start?
Sue IsmielI relied on the infinite intelligence we have as human beings, in our subconscious mind. I didn't have anyone to go to. I didn't have a mentor. There was no Google. There was no internet. So, what was logic? What made common sense to me? So, I started looking at what was on shelf. Read the label about waxes. What made a wax? And deleted the wax, the item that was irritating her skin. And then substituted that with something natural, and so on. It was trial and error. Trial and error. For many, many months. And quite often I went to bed thinking, "Oh, what am I doing? I'm wasting my time. This is crazy. People are right, I am crazy." And so I'd probably go to bed thinking, "This is my last attempt." But then the first thought that entered my head, in the morning, was "What haven't I tried next?" So, that how obsessed I was by solving the problem.
Jodi KatzThat's interesting. Do you remember this time in your mom's life?
Natalie IsmielI do. No, I definitely remember how busy our household was. And exciting at the same time, though. I remember both mom and dad were quite involved in the early stages of the business. I remember dad being out in the shed. And, back then, the shed was our factory, because we didn't have a factory. And dad would be out there mixing the gel in this big pot, in between dropping us off at school, picking us up from school, making our lunches. After school, we'd go in and help out, packing up boxes. Some of my school friends would come over.

And then mom, on the other hand, she wore so many hats back then. I remember her trying to keep on top of the admin side, or sales. And, particularly, the markets. So, back then, she was running around to local markets and setting up a Nad’s stand. And I remember you just pulling in people, guys and girls, "Let me show you how this works." And waxing legs, and arms, and eyebrows. It was full on every day.
Sue IsmielYeah.
Jodi KatzIt must have been really fun to watch that. And bring your friends into that.
Natalie IsmielIt was. And they were so excited as well. They're like, "Oh, Nat. What are guys doing?" They just wanted to know what's the latest with Nad’s, and where are we off to next. And, "Wow, your mom. She's created this product." It was just all so new, back then.
Sue IsmielYeah. And looking back at it today, I think, the fact that the girls were involved, hands on, from day one, has really made them what they are today. They always felt that this product was for them, that this is the family business. They felt that sense of belonging, and they worked with it, and they developed their life, and their career, through this thing that I created and built from the ground up. So, yeah. I was almost programming them for excellence, without even knowing that.
Jodi KatzSo, let's talk about this drive that you said you don't know where it comes from.
Sue IsmielSure.
Jodi KatzBecause, I meet a lot of entrepreneurs in our space, and you have to really want it. This is an uphill climb every step of the way. You're pushing a boulder up the mountain. I know, at some point, it feels a little easier, but there's ... in the beginning it's just so hard. There must be something inside of you, that you can see the why, why you had this drive.
Sue IsmielYes. I've thought about that question, and I've tried to answer it for myself, because I wanna know where that drive comes from. It's extraordinary. And people think that when I'm in that zone, when I'm in that mode, I'm unstoppable. It might go back to, I suppose, when I was 15 years of age, and when I had just migrated to Australia from Syria, and I didn't speak a word of English. On the third day of my school attendance, I was actually assaulted and beaten up on the school bus, because I couldn't speak English. To me, maybe there was this unconscious thought that probably linked the two together. Maybe if my daughter has dark hair on her arms, maybe she'll be bullied, or assaulted, or ... so, maybe that was the force that was unstoppable for me. I don't know. That could be.

But, then again, if I look back again, at my desires, at my ... what did I want to do upon my arrival to this amazing country? Because we left Syria wanting to find a better life. Wanting to become someone, achieve something worthwhile. So, I was always looking for something that would really satisfy that desire. And when this opportunity presented itself to me, I loved it, and I gave it everything that I had.
Jodi KatzWhat a stark contrast, to come to Australia for a better life, and then, after your first day of school, you get attacked.
Sue IsmielExactly.
Jodi KatzYour parents must have been devastated.
Sue IsmielThey were devastated. I really didn't know who I was. I actually went back home crying, and said to my mom, "That's it. I don't wanna go to school here. I just want to leave school." And, my mother would not allow me to do that. She took me straight back to school, and obviously, spoke to the headmaster, and they tried to monitor the situation.

But, I had no other option. I had two options only, either give in to the bullies, and become a victim of bullying for the rest of my life, or prove them wrong. Prove the critics, and the doubters wrong. And, so, I focused on learning English. I really wanted to learn the English language, in such a way that would not differentiate me from the Australians. It took me about 3 months, and I was able to read, write, communicate, and even make friends. Everything that I have achieved, in my life, I always take back to that defining moment. And, think to myself, "Well, if I could change that unbearable reality of my life, from being beaten up, to being embraced by my fellow Australians, then I can do anything."
Jodi KatzRight. I would imagine that giving your children the opportunity to have a better way, and a better experience would most definitely keep you up at night, and want to work really hard towards this.
Sue IsmielAbsolutely.
Jodi KatzThank you for sharing that. That's such an awful situation. I'm so sorry.
Sue IsmielThat's fine, thank you. I've always talked about it, because it still happens, and it will continue to happen. If people give in to bullying, well then, really, what's gonna happen to them? I encourage those who are bullied, be it at home, or at school, or in the workplace, to actually stand up for themselves, and face the bullies, and prove themselves.
Jodi KatzThat's a hard task to swallow when you're in it.
Sue IsmielExactly.
Jodi KatzWell, I can understand the fire, and fury inside of you to create this for your daughter. This is so incredible.

Well, now that we know where that drive came from, let's talk about this other insight that you must have had, at some point along the way, early years ... beauty's a really big business. Right? So, it was very personal, and it was for your daughter, at the time, but, this is one of the most compelling, and fast moving industries. When, in the past 30 years, did you realize, oh my God, what I found for my daughter is actually gonna be a huge business? When did you feel that?
Sue IsmielWell, when I perfected the formula and tried it on my daughter, and I looked into her eyes, and she looked up at me and smiled, I thought, whoa.
Natalie IsmielIt was like a eureka moment.
Sue IsmielThis is that eureka moment. I was so thrilled to be able to actually find something that worked for her. At that point ... starting a business didn't even enter my head. But then, because I was so excited about what I had created, I started taking it to work with me, and sharing it with my colleagues at work. Everybody wanted their eyebrows done, they wanted to try it on their legs, and on their arms. That's when I thought, whoa, this could be something big. I should really start a business from this formula. Turn it into a business success.

But, then again, it was an idea that entered my head, but I had absolutely no idea how to start a business. And so, I started knocking on the doors of manufacturers. Back then, we had Revlon, Neutrametics ... And I started knocking on the doors, and sitting in front of these big guys in their suits, and presenting my little jar with the green goo in it, and trying to convince them what a success it could be. No. They would look down at me, and I could almost hear them thinking, "Why would I want to do anything with your formula?"

So, I headed straight back to my kitchen, and I thought okay. I will start my own manufacturing. I started in the kitchen again, filled my own jars, developed my own labels, and packed them in boxes, and headed to the markets, stood there. That very first day, my sister and I stood there for 2 frustrating hours. And not even one person came forward. I was so disheartened. I was almost going to pack up and go home, but then, something told me that I should actually start talking to people, because they have no idea what I'm doing there. So, then, that's when I started, as Natalie said, calling them.
Natalie IsmielPulling them in.
Sue IsmielYes. Pulling them in. Look what I've done. I created this for my daughter. And then, everybody wanted, again, their eyebrows shaped, tried on their legs. And, so, I created this crowd, everyone wanted to know what was going on. I sold out, in less than an hour.
Jodi KatzWow. So, from zero to sell out.
Sue IsmielFrom zero to sell out. And wow. My sister and I were so thrilled. We'd never seen so much cash in our lives. And so, we started counting. How much did we make today? And couldn't wait to get back to that same spot again the following week.
Jodi KatzSo, what you created for yourself was a demonstration zone?
Sue IsmielExactly.
Jodi KatzWhich, it so really drives beauty forward.
Natalie IsmielYou can really see that before and after. And that was the beauty with the hair removal, is that you see hair, and then completely gone in a few seconds.
Jodi KatzAnd, also, blending in the personal experience and the story telling. I mean, that's what drives our business on social. The before and afters, and the story telling, and the captions, that what drives home shopping forward. You were doing that one on one.
Sue IsmielWe offered the world a complete package that they connected to, and just couldn't refuse. From the markets, to shopping center demonstrations, and then the, I guess, the moment, the defining moments, was when I decided to become this demonstrator on television.
Natalie IsmielTV.
Sue IsmielTV, yeah. TV host. Applying the same rules that I applied on the ground. That very first segment was an instant hit. Australians from all over wanted to have a piece of that magic green goo. Kept going back for the next 4 years, building equity in the brand. And then, I thought, "Oh, I really only dealing with about 25 million people. I better head to America."
Natalie IsmielTo a new market.
Jodi KatzHow old were you at this time? When you saw, like, "Oh, my God. My parents have a business here."
Natalie IsmielThat would have been early teens, when I started picking up.
Sue IsmielMm-hmm (affirmative)
Jodi KatzThat must have been amazing to watch.
Natalie IsmielIt was. It was really amazing. And just seeing the growth, you know, ever year. And seeing, "Oh, my gosh. Now we're on TV. Mom's demonstrating." It was just inspiring.
Jodi KatzSo, you were the girl at school whose mom was on TV selling beauty products.
Natalie IsmielTo be honest, at the time, I remember saying to my mom, "Why couldn't you create a product for me that was in beauty, like a beautiful perfume? Instead of a product for unwanted hair? Can't you see how embarrassing this is, mom?"
Jodi KatzRight. It is very personal.
Natalie IsmielVery personal. Everyone knows about my hair problem.
Sue IsmielI embarrassed her on national television.
Natalie IsmielEventually, I forgave her.
Jodi KatzDid you have the chance to embarrass your other daughters, too?
Natalie IsmielNot yet, you haven't.
Sue IsmielI haven't, huh? No. We kept them behind the scenes. We only highlighted you to the world.
Natalie IsmielThat's right.
Jodi KatzIt's many years later, what is your role in the company now?
Natalie IsmielSo, now, I've been working in the marketing side of the company, and brand management, more so. But, recently, mom and I are now joint global brand ambassadors. So, I'm spending a lot more time with mom, getting out there, and just sharing our story to different markets, and different people. It's exciting to be able to be working alongside mom. Obviously, I've learned so much, and she's got so much experience and wisdom. I feel fortunate to be able to take on a lot of that.
Sue IsmielYeah. And our company name is, I don't know if you know this, but it's Sue Ismiel and Daughters. And Nad’s is just one of the...
Jodi KatzSo, that's your corporate umbrella.
Natalie IsmielIt is. Yes.
Sue IsmielThat's the corporate umbrella. So, Nad’s is obviously one of our biggest brands under this umbrella. You know, Sue Ismiel and Daughters is a very unique name. It's the only name in Australia that ends with and daughters. I don't know about America. We have to investigate and see if there are any companies here.
Natalie IsmielAnd daughters.
Sue IsmielThat end up with and daughters. But, it actually highlights the roles of my daughters. And my oldest daughter, Nadine, is the head of research and development. So, every other product that we've added to the category, is really her creation.
Jodi KatzOh. That's so cool.
Sue IsmielAnd Natalie mentioned, she's in marketing. And my youngest daughter, Naomi, is the head of design; the website, the packaging, everything is her creation. The name really compliments my daughters roles. It's something that I've very proud of.
Jodi KatzI bet. Are there any other family members working the business? You mentioned your sister earlier.
Sue IsmielMy sister was there. Her husband is still there.
Natalie IsmielThere's a few cousins.
Sue IsmielThe two cousins are there. The two nephews are there. My husband was always there. Unfortunately, he passed 3 years ago. So, yeah, we do have family members in the business, as well as non-family members.
Natalie IsmielWe like to have that family culture, even with people that aren't family members within the organization.
Jodi KatzYeah. There must be a really nice environment for your employees.
Natalie IsmielIt is.
Sue IsmielVery nice. We look after them. Quite often, I prepare a meal and take it to work, and my staff are always waiting for me to bring ...
Natalie Ismielfood to lunch to share.
Jodi KatzSo, if you're not cooking up green goo in the kitchen, you're cooking food.
Sue IsmielAbsolutely.
Natalie IsmielThat's good.
Jodi KatzHow many employees do you have?
Natalie IsmielWe have about 40. That includes our U.S. office as well.
Jodi KatzAlright, so, now I have to ask the question, because not everybody can work with their mom, and not every mom can work with their daughters. What advice would you give to people who are building and growing a family business about that family dynamic?
Sue IsmielI think it's important that children connected, and have a desire to be part of the family business. I didn't really plan to ... for it to be this perfect. But, it's amazingly perfect. I've been asked, "Do you guys fight? Or, do you have arguments?" No, we don't, actually. My daughters work together very closely. They, each one of them, know their role. They actually complement each other's role. We do have tough discussions sometimes, and that doesn't necessarily have to be in the office. We could be having dinner, and having business discussions. But, it's all about having fun. It's all about making sure that ...
Natalie IsmielWe're all on the same page.
Sue IsmielWe're all on the same page. It's beautiful to work together as a family.
Natalie IsmielI think, in this day and age, we're always so busy in our lives, our family lives, friends. It's nice to be able to catch up with your family. And if it's a quick lunch break, or coffee break. It works quite well. I think it's important, also, to separate work from personal. So, when we got home, it's nice to switch off a little bit, and give you that me time.
Jodi KatzSo, that must be the hardest part, I think, right? Like switching ... Because, when you're an entrepreneur, you are always thinking about growth. Maybe you're not thinking about this little detail, but you're thinking very big picture. Or, maybe, sometimes, obsessing about the details, right? So how do you have a family dinner, or birthday celebration, or a holiday, and not talk about work? Or is work part of the fun?
Sue IsmielI think it is part of the fun. We don't really try to separate the discussions. We try to have fun, because at this point in our lives, well, in my life, I have grandkids as well. And so, I spend a lot of time with them. I enjoy the time with my grandkids. I really deliberately want to talk to them about business. I want to tell them stories about how we built it brick by brick, from the ground up. Because, they say that the first generation starts a business, the second generation takes it to the next level, and the third generation comes in, crashes it down. Well, that's not gonna happen in our family business. No. Because they know how hard we've worked, and they know that not everything is given to them on a silver platter. They know that, and they appreciate it. That's the joy of life. We bring them on board at such a young age. In fact, they are brand ambassadors for one of our other brands.
Natalie IsmielOther brands.
Jodi KatzOh, tell me. I was gonna ask. What are the other brands under your umbrella?
Sue IsmielYes. So, we have the Nitwits brand ...
Natalie IsmielWhich is a head lice.
Jodi KatzOh.
Sue IsmielThey are the brand ambassadors.
Natalie IsmielThey're always like, "When are we gonna appear on the website?" They're so excited about this.
Jodi KatzRight. And then, they're gonna go through the same thing you went through, which is they're gonna be the faces of head lice. And then, [crosstalk]
Natalie Ismiel[crosstalk]
Sue IsmielA lot of embarrassing categories, right? Yes. And we have ... believe it or not we stick to hair, don't we. So, we have the shampoos, all natural, the natural rain.
Natalie IsmielWhich is Australian Native Botanicals.
Jodi KatzWhat is that brand called?
Natalie IsmielAustralian Native Botanicals.
Jodi KatzOh. Cool. Okay.
Sue IsmielYes. And, there's just so much in the pipeline, with Nadine being the head of research and development. We're always looking other categories. We're looking at acquiring brands, who aren't unable to get to America, for instance. We have this platform we can use, and we take them straight to the retailers that we're dealing with. We're in a very good position.
Jodi KatzSo, if we have listeners who have brands, who want help, maybe take it to the next level ...
Sue IsmielWe'll talk to them.
Jodi KatzWhat are you looking for in those acquisitions?
Sue IsmielSkin care, at the moment. We don't just take on anything. It has to have a point of difference. It has to be safe. It has to be natural. Because that's who we are.
Natalie IsmielAnd innovative. Quite different.
Jodi KatzDoes it have to be an Australian based company?
Sue IsmielWell, you know, Australian base sells. I think people all over the world love Australia.
Jodi KatzYeah.
Sue IsmielWe prefer it to be Australian, but if it's something that's ... well, first we'll look at it.
Jodi KatzGot it. That's so interesting.

With the last few minutes that we have, I wanna go back to something that you were talking about before, which was how you actually started this line of products, which is face to face, person to person, one on one in demonstrating. Something I've noticed in our industry, as social takes over, and spins every marketer's heads, for how do we grow our business? I do think we've lost some of that. That founder, or team member, standing at the store, and having engaging conversations, and working really hard to rope somebody in to listen. What advice would you give to someone building a business right now, based on what you've experienced, and what you see in the marketplace, right now? Is that still the way to grow, human to human?
Sue IsmielI think it is. But, when I started, almost 30 years ago, we didn't have the opportunities that business starters have today. I think you can invent anything in your bedroom, if you want to. You have the media in your bedroom, the social media, to go out there and talk to your consumer. If you do it right, I think, the opportunities are even bigger for you. Even though we've lost that human touch. But I think you can still touch people with your eye contact, with your voice. You're the voice. You can still do that. We haven't lost it. It's a different world, definitely, but the opportunities are endless in this world.
Natalie IsmielI think you can use technology now. I know, with Nad’s, in particular, we have this segment now called “Nad’s with Nat”. Where I'll actually do what mom was doing, but I'll give my tips and tricks, and give a 30 second video on Youtube. And we'll put out on our website, or social media. There's no reason why you can't hold a story and show the effectiveness of your products, and highlight your messages, but do it online.
Jodi KatzRight, right. You really have to break through that wall of the screen, to feel like you're having a one on one conversation.
Natalie IsmielYeah. And I don't think everything has to be polished these days. You can, like you said, grab your Iphone, or ...
Sue IsmielI mean TV ... TV really worked for me. Back in the days, it was big. I even won the award, so many awards, but the biggest award in America, was the Top 100 Infomercials. Our infomercial climbed from, nowhere to be seen to number one, only in a few months, and it stayed there for over 2 years. But, not every product did that. Whereas, today, you can actually be so creative. You can connect with the consumer without having to pay millions of dollars for TV advertising. That's the difference today. If you get it right on social media, whoa, you're laughing.
Jodi KatzThis is still a family owned business?
Sue IsmielIt sure is.
Jodi KatzWell, congratulations to that. I think that's gonna be so many people who are inspired by your story.
Sue IsmielThank you.
Natalie IsmielThank you so much.
Jodi KatzThank you for sharing your wisdom with us today.
Natalie IsmielThank you.
Sue IsmielGreat to be here. Thank you.
Jodi KatzAnd for our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Sue and Natalie. Please subscribe to our series on itunes, and for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast.
AnnouncerThanks for listening to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.

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