09.26.2018
Episode 77: Rachel Winard, Founder of Soapwalla
Summary
Change can be slow. Though we’re almost two decades into the 21st century, beauty standards have only just begun widening in scope. Just ask Rachel Winard, founder of skincare line Soapwalla. “I like the way I look, but I’m not the typical face of a skincare company.”
With a penchant for designs shaved into her hair and tattooed arms on display, she describes a sense of invisibility within the beauty industry. “Usually, you see long flowing hair, very light skin. You either look like that, or you’re very straight-looking man in a suit. There was nothing to suit my presentation.” But she found an upshot to that sense of invisibility. “Instead of moving within a box, I’m going to create my own path, in and out of business.”
In this episode, get the backstory on the brand, go deeper into issues of underrepresentation, and find out the one simple thing companies can do to bolster inclusivity.
Transcript
| Announcer | Welcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® hosted by Jodi Katz, Founder and Creative Director of Base Beauty Creative Agency. |
| Jodi Katz | Welcome back to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY®. It's Jodi Katz, your host. This week's episode features Rachel Winard. She's the founder of Soapwalla. Please give her episode a listen. She thinks that soap can do way more than just clean our bodies. And last week's episode featured Cathi Singh. She's a freelance, Emmy Award winning makeup artist. I hope you enjoy the shows. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the show. I am sitting with Rachel Winard, founder of Soapwalla. |
| Rachel Winard | Hi. |
| Jodi Katz | Welcome to the show. |
| Rachel Winard | Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. |
| Jodi Katz | I'm so thrilled that you're here. I do want to say that we tried to plan this for several months ago, and unfortunately you were going through some health issues at the time, but I'm so grateful that you're here now. |
| Rachel Winard | Thank you. Me too. Believe me. |
| Jodi Katz | What would you like to share about what you went through recently? |
| Rachel Winard | Sure. So I ended up having semi-emergency open abdominal surgery to remove 17, what ended up being, benign tumors. We didn't know at the time. Mostly uterine fibroids, but some that traveled and got excited and started moving around my abdominal cavity. So that was a whole thing that was very unexpected. I had been having symptoms for about six months prior to the surgery, but they really ramped up, and from the time I found my surgeon until I went into surgery, it was only seven days. |
| Jodi Katz | Oh. So what are symptoms of that? Like what were you feeling? |
| Rachel Winard | For me it was like radically different periods. So I went from being very consistent every 28 days, like I could set my clock by my internal clock, and no cramps, nothing, to being at home three days like bowled over in pain, could not stand up, and a weird pressure in my belly. By the time I was really being taken seriously by doctors, you could see growths on the outside of my abdomen. |
| Jodi Katz | That's crazy. |
| Rachel Winard | You could see the bulges. |
| Jodi Katz | So they did an ultrasound and they saw all these things like all inside? |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. First I had a pelvic where the gynecologist said my uterus was tracking at seven weeks, and- |
| Jodi Katz | Like pregnant? |
| Rachel Winard | Pregnant. |
| Jodi Katz | So the fibroids and tumors were so big it made you seem pregnant? |
| Rachel Winard | By the time that they removed my uterus, because I ended up having to need a uterine hysterectomy, it was at 16 weeks pregnant, and that was with most of the tumors on the outside. |
| Jodi Katz | Oh, my God. |
| Rachel Winard | It was a big old mess. |
| Jodi Katz | Holy cow. This must have been so scary. |
| Rachel Winard | It was terrifying. Yeah, and I'm still ... When you have something like this, I have systemic lupus erythematosus, or lupus for short, which is an autoimmune illness, which also plays a role in this, and there's so very little research done on women's reproductive issues that are benign but life changing like endometriosis, like fibroids. So there's not really a lot of knowledge on how these two play together, but something kicked my immune system into super high gear because I have zero symptoms six months ago and I had 17 tumors by the time that they removed them. |
| Jodi Katz | Wow. And do they have any idea what that shift would have have been? |
| Rachel Winard | It's unclear at this point, but I'm definitely ... I'm on a slightly more monitored track now, so there's a lot of testing in the future. |
| Jodi Katz | Oh, my God. Well, I'm so happy that you're sitting here with a smile. |
| Rachel Winard | Thank you. |
| Jodi Katz | You look comfortable. |
| Rachel Winard | I feel great. I feel light. |
| Jodi Katz | I bet. |
| Rachel Winard | Just like bowling balls were removed from me. |
| Jodi Katz | That's crazy. Oh, my God. Well, I don't know how to transition to this, so I'll just do it. How are you going to spend your time today? What's on your plate for today? |
| Rachel Winard | So this morning I boxed, which I do, I box or I practice yoga every single day. I also went up to my roof garden and I gardened. I watered all my plants since it's like a million degrees in New York City today. |
| Jodi Katz | Is it a vegetable garden or a flower garden? |
| Rachel Winard | It's a flower garden. Since we have a roof deck, in New York City we have lots of little creatures, so we don't ... I would love to have a vegetable garden, but that's not so great for keeping little friends away from your roof, so it's just a flower and plant garden. Herb harden. So I putzed around up there for a few minutes, and then I got ready and I came here, and then after I'll do some work. I'm doing a presentation tomorrow, so I'm sort of preparing for that. |
| Jodi Katz | Cool. |
| Rachel Winard | Yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | Well, let's talk about something that goes way back for you, which is being a concert violinists. How did this get started for you? |
| Rachel Winard | So I started playing violin when I was four, and it was immediately love at first sight. It's hard to put into words, but I just, I still have such a somatic recollection of like touching the violin for the first time. |
| Jodi Katz | That's very young, right? |
| Rachel Winard | Very young. I mean, it's not so young. I became professional and I went to Julliard, and it's that's kind of the age that most of my classmates started either violin or piano or whatever it was, three, four, five. Like that's pretty common, but it is a very young age, and I think because I was so young, it's sort of shaped how I see the world still. Like I see the world through music. |
| Jodi Katz | What does that mean to you? |
| Rachel Winard | Let's see if I can describe this. You know, one of the best ways or most tangible ways is the way that I formulate since I'm the sole formulator for Soapwalla. When I am crafting a product, I think of it like a piece, so I need like a good solid baseline. I need sort of the melody to go through, and then high notes to accentuate whatever it is I'm trying to focus on. So that's sort of ... Like whenever I'm walking down the street, there's like a soundtrack to whatever's happening. Everything is musically oriented. |
| Jodi Katz | That's so amazing that you say that because I am so not musical and I can't even taste what you're talking about. Right? I can't smell it. It's so foreign to me. Not only can I not play musical instruments, but like I don't even really understand how to appreciate music. It's just not in me. I never learned it. Maybe I can, but it's pretty cool. So you went, like this ... When you say professional, you mean you were hired to play? |
| Rachel Winard | Yes, yes. |
| Jodi Katz | This is a big deal. How old were you when that was happening? |
| Rachel Winard | I went pro when I was 12, and I still competed. So it's like ... I mean it's, classical music is very different from pop music. There are a lot of overlaps, especially in the business side of things, but like you can still compete in international competitions and then also play for money, which is what I did. |
| Jodi Katz | So you were traveling around playing for money? |
| Rachel Winard | Yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | And then how do you fit school into that? |
| Rachel Winard | Well, I went to ... So, high school, I did homeschooling for a year, realized that was not for me. Went back to high school. I was just gone for about half the time. I was very diligent about my scheduling from a young age because I needed to practice six to eight hours a day. I was performing, I would say, six times a week, and I had school and school work to deal with. I wanted to ... I'm a perfectionist, so everything I do needs to be done well. So I wanted that for my schoolwork, as well as everything else. So I woke up at 4:00 AM every morning during high school so that I could practice for an hour and a half before I got to school. |
| Jodi Katz | Oh, my God. This is crazy dedication. |
| Rachel Winard | I think it's pretty common across the board. Like if you listen to Olympic gymnasts or swimmers, it's the same thing. If you're really dedicated to a craft, you rearrange your life so that you can get it done. |
| Jodi Katz | Right. So is the word obsession right? Like were you obsessed with it? |
| Rachel Winard | I don't think obsession is right. I think obsession can have a negative connotation, for me anyway. I would say I was highly focused and it fed me. I think sometimes obsessions can- |
| Jodi Katz | Deplete. |
| Rachel Winard | Deplete you. |
| Jodi Katz | Yeah, right, right. But music fed you. That's so interesting. But you have to have like total support in your household to be able to live this life. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. Oh, yeah. My parents are amazing people. I love them to death, and I feel incredibly lucky because they have supported me in everything I've ever done or said or wanted to be from day one. |
| Jodi Katz | That's amazing. |
| Rachel Winard | They're still that way. |
| Jodi Katz | So I'm still sitting here thinking about every day you're a teenager waking up at 4:00 AM, playing your music, doing your schoolwork, going to school, probably having a job that night, playing, and then it's go to bed and start it all over. |
| Rachel Winard | And if I was performing in the city, so we moved to Seattle when I was I think 13 and a half or something for a violin teacher. If I was performing in Seattle, one of my parents was at that performance. I don't think I ever performed locally without one of them being there. |
| Jodi Katz | Was that important to you that they were there? |
| Rachel Winard | Not at the time, but afterwards I'm just like, how did you ... It's amazing. It's really amazing the dedication that they had. |
| Jodi Katz | Yeah. You know, I asked that out of curiosity, because in my head I'm wondering, do I need to be at all of my kids' sporting things? |
| Rachel Winard | Yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | Like can't they just go to a game and one of us not be there? Is it really that important? |
| Rachel Winard | I think it probably depends on the kid and their relationship to the thing that they're doing, and if someone's there to support them, right. |
| Jodi Katz | Right, right. You know, it's hard for me to remember because it's a long time ago since I was a teenager, but I don't know if I ... I mean, I think I saw my mom there, but it wasn't like feeling it, and maybe because sports for me, they were just something fun to do and it wasn't like a super passion. It was just like an activity. |
| Rachel Winard | Exactly. |
| Jodi Katz | But yeah, maybe if I was like had so much pride in every goal and so much pride in every moment on the field, I would feel differently. |
| Rachel Winard | Yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | Oh, that's so interesting. Thank you for shedding some light on that for me. |
| Rachel Winard | Oh, my pleasure. |
| Jodi Katz | So my next question you already answered, it was, is there anything that ties making product and making music together, and you expressed it so beautifully. So now I'd love to shift gears and talk about another topic. When we first spoke you told me, and this is in quotes, that no one looks like me in this business in the beauty industry. What does that mean to you? |
| Rachel Winard | I look ... Well, I like to joke that I look like a 12-year-old boy, which I don't mean in a negative way. I like the way I look, but that's not the typical face of a skincare company. Usually you have very long flowing hair, very light skin. You look very straight, or you either look like a man in a suit or you don't look like this. I'm wearing like a tank top with my tattoos showing today. I have no makeup on. I have a very short cut. Oftentimes I have like a design shaved in the back of my head, like not the usual. |
| Jodi Katz | I love what's happening with the front. That's very cool. |
| Rachel Winard | This is called humidity. I don't do anything to my hair. The only thing I do is after I apply deodorant, there's a little bit of residue on my fingers, and I just run it through my hair and that helps tame a Jew-fro situation. |
| Jodi Katz | Right, the- |
| Rachel Winard | [crosstalk 00:11:18]. |
| Jodi Katz | So when did Soapwalla start? When did this start for you? |
| Rachel Winard | I founded the company in December 2009, but I started making products in 2002. |
| Jodi Katz | So 2002 is a long time ago. It's like a million years ago in this business. |
| Rachel Winard | It's really a long time ago. |
| Jodi Katz | I would think that things have changed a little bit in the dynamic of like who's creating beauty brands, who is innovating in this industry when it comes to the statement of no one looks like me. Have you seen that shift? |
| Rachel Winard | Yes, definitely. I would say in the last two years specifically I've really seen a shift in the conversation, more of inclusiveness in every possible way, which is great. I just want us to continue that. I don't want us to be like, "Yay, we solved this problem. We're done." Because there's a lot of work to be done. |
| Jodi Katz | Yes. I mean, my own awareness, it keeps ... I'm having little light bulb moments all the time. I was talking with someone who's a content producer at Buzzfeed and I was telling her how excited I am to have finally started Rent the Runway because it's just sort of a game changer for me. Like I don't really have to think about it. I don't have to buy anything. I don't have to go to a store. And she's like, "Yeah, I love it, but they don't make enough products in plus size, so it's not for me." And I'm like, "Holy, yes. This is such a missed opportunity." And she went on to say, "Well, a lot of the brands don't even make things in my size. It's not that Rent the Runway refuses to carry them. It's just that they don't exist." |
| Rachel Winard | I have the same issue. There's nothing there that suits my presentation. |
| Jodi Katz | Right, right. The style that you want is not there. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | So this idea of inclusivity, it's just like I feel like little light bulbs going off all the time, and I feel like I'm a well informed person, so if these light bulbs are going off just now for me, you can just imagine how most people, they're not even close to screwing down a light bulb, right? It's so far away. |
| Rachel Winard | I mean, one of the easiest ways to do that is just listen to someone else who has a completely different experience from yours. Like without judgment, just let them tell you how they see the world because it's very different from you, and it's such an easy way to get a new perspective. I mean, that's what companies need to do as well. |
| Jodi Katz | Yeah. I mean, I'm hoping that this pod is starting to do that because we talk to people who are ... I mean, a lot of them are founders, but many of them also aren't, and I feel like we only hear from the celebrity face of a brand. Even if it's not celebrity, it's like the notable person, and the people on stage at industry events are the ones who sold their company for a million billion dollars. We don't hear from everybody, and that's been so important to me. Like behind the scenes is so important and just as important. |
| Rachel Winard | Very much so. It's almost more important. |
| Jodi Katz | Every age. Yeah, and every age and background, and like how you found this industry. No one found it with laser sharp focus, you know? Most people just find it by accident. |
| Rachel Winard | Yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | Okay. So let's talk about this other term that you told me, invisibility bias. What does that mean? |
| Rachel Winard | So it's when you aren't even ... It's not that you ... I'm trying to think of how best to craft it. You're not even there, like you're not even part of the conversation. So it feels, when you're in that position, that you're not even worth the breath that it takes to either put you down or build you up. You're just not even there. It's a very particular kind of bias. |
| Jodi Katz | How do you feel that in our business? |
| Rachel Winard | I don't see lesbians represented. I really don't. I see more of an inclusiveness in a lot of other ways. I still see it skewed very heavily toward straight female presentation, no matter what their identity is. The presentation looks very straight, historically straight, and/or straight male or gay male. |
| Jodi Katz | Right. So if I were to coach some of the clients that I have in terms of like how to avoid this invisibility bias, how would I show somebody who's not straight in communications, for example? |
| Rachel Winard | Hire some queer women. That's one of the easiest ways. And then show them on the front. Like there are as many people as there are, there are gender presentation. I believe strongly that gender is fluid, and I think there are ways to appropriately capture that so that we see that. It's very empowering to see yourself in some way on a screen or a big billboard like on a SoHo building or even just when you're flipping through a magazine. |
| Jodi Katz | Right. |
| Rachel Winard | And I think just having those people in the room to tell you how they would like to be represented is the first step. |
| Jodi Katz | Great point. Actually have conversations, not make assumptions. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | Right? I mean, that's not rocket science, right? Right? Like we can all do this. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | It's just about making time, making their priority. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | So walking through our business since about 2002, or even if we go back to 2009, walking through our business, building relationship, making connections, networking and getting investors, whatever it is that you've had to do to grow the business. Like how has this invisibility bias or this feeling of no one looks like me impacted the way that you move through the growth? |
| Rachel Winard | I think it's a blessing in a lot of ways. So I don't have a business degree, which I also think is a blessing, and in the same way, my invisibility gives me a lot of freedom. Instead of moving within a box, I just said, "Fine, I'm just going to create my own path, like completely outside the box, in business and out." I think a lot of people who are part of the norm, they have to work a little harder to get to that place of complete freedom that you have when you're on the margins. |
| Jodi Katz | Right. So I just feel like the time is so right for your brand. I think the customer is asking for this. They don't want to be dictated to anymore. Even just like in the simplest terms, the consumer's view of what aspiration is has totally changed. Right? Like aspiration only used to be in our industry like the tan lady on a yacht in Capri. There was really only one way to show it. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | Maybe her accessories would change, the car would change or the jet would change, but like ... You know, a jet or a boat. And now aspiration means so many different things. So- |
| Rachel Winard | It's amazing. |
| Jodi Katz | ... what has been the hardest thing though, being someone who feels not represented in the business? What's been the biggest challenge in growing Soapwalla? |
| Rachel Winard | Not being taken seriously, which I think may also just be my being a small woman in a business that's still very dominated by men. And- |
| Jodi Katz | When you say small woman, you mean like- |
| Rachel Winard | I'm not tall. I'm like five feet when I'm standing as tall as I possibly- |
| Jodi Katz | Are you wearing heels? |
| Rachel Winard | No. |
| Jodi Katz | Oh, okay. |
| Rachel Winard | I present as taller. |
| Jodi Katz | Yes, seriously. Yeah. |
| Rachel Winard | In my head I'm like five foot eight. I feel like everyone is my height, and then I stand next to them and I'm like, "You grew a lot." So yeah, I project a taller person, but when I'm standing one on one with someone you can really feel my height. So I would say that, like being not taken seriously or receiving very patronizing responses, or just not even being invited to the table, the conference, the speaking engagement, whatever it is. |
| Jodi Katz | So this would be in talking with ... What is this, like talking with editors or talking with investors? Where do you find this biggest challenge? |
| Rachel Winard | So we haven't gotten the investment route yet, so I haven't had any meetings with investors or bankers or lenders. We've been in the black since day one, which I'm really, really proud of. |
| Jodi Katz | Mazal. That's amazing. |
| Rachel Winard | Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it took a lot of work to keep it that way, but I really wanted 100% control of the business, and I wasn't willing to give that up because our priorities are very much governed by the principles that I created when I started the company. So obviously when we want to be profitable, I want to be able to provide lovely place for my employees that's a secure employment, but safety, efficacy, purity, all of that still is our number one. |
| Jodi Katz | Right. And all your products are made locally? |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. Yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | Right? Locally, New York City locally? |
| Rachel Winard | Yeah. Our deodorant we're getting help with now, so that's going to be Connecticut. We can't keep up, which is a great problem to have, which is a whole different can of worms of like finding someone who can help you co-manufacturer who does things the way you want them to. |
| Jodi Katz | Right, that shares the same values as you. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | It's probably easy to find factory, but- |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. Yeah, and I really, I wanted people who are hands on. I wanted people who would let me be in the space. All of that is a whole ... That's a whole different podcast. But I apologize, I forgot what your question was where I started [crosstalk 00:20:22]. |
| Jodi Katz | Well, we were talking about ... We started, first you told me that you're actually not tall, which I didn't know, but I was asking how this feeling of not being taken seriously, what prospects of the business is it most challenging to deal with that? |
| Rachel Winard | I feel it on the editorial side a little bit, and also I would say more like panels or talks where I feel like we'd be a good fit, and I know that the people who are running the program know of us and we've had conversations, and I think it's just like they don't even see me as part of that conversation. |
| Jodi Katz | Right. Well, my guess is the Thought Leadership opportunity [inaudible 00:21:04] with people who actually see it. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | Right? |
| Rachel Winard | I agree. |
| Jodi Katz | And we can talk offline about what those would be because I want you to get those as well. Okay. So let's talk about something that I was not expecting to talk about until when we had our first chat. How is soap a public health issue? |
| Rachel Winard | So skincare is ... Skin health is public health, which is why I'm so adamant about us being a brand for everybody, and that plays out in a couple of ways. We don't use human models. I don't want to show you who I think my customer is. You are my customer. So I'm not going to put any images in your head. If you see any people on our Instagram feed, it's likely me because I'm the only model that we'll use, or it's another customer who posted something that we regrammed. |
| Rachel Winard | Your skin is sort of like your canary in the coal mine. Like if you have systemic issues going on, often it will play a role in your skin in some way, and you need that support. You need good, clean, healthy skincare that makes you feel good about yourself and good in your body while you're using it. That will just impact all other parts of your life, your mental health, your physical health, how you walk through the world. And people who are marginalized often don't feel that in the commercial skincare world. I certainly didn't before I really made it. There were certain stores that there was not enough money to make me have to go into. I just felt so incredibly unwelcome and that it was not the right fit. I was really desperate when I started making skincare. I wouldn't have done it otherwise, but I was really in a health crisis, and I realized I needed to. |
| Jodi Katz | What was the health crisis? |
| Rachel Winard | The lupus diagnosis. It took about a year and a half to be diagnosed, which shockingly is actually a smaller amount of time. I think the average is like three years to get an accurate diagnosis. |
| Jodi Katz | Wow. |
| Rachel Winard | So I had a lot of stuff going on internally. I do have internal organ involvement, but nearly everyone with lupus has skin issues because it's an autoimmune illness, meaning that your cells get confused and they start attacking your own cells, thinking that they're foreign bodies, and your skin is a very fast turnover, so a lot of people have pretty intense skin issues, and I was one of those people. Like head to toe. |
| Rachel Winard | So out of desperation, I started making these products, and as I really delved into this, I mentioned earlier, I'm a perfectionist. So of course, like feet first I dove into this. I taught myself basic chemistry formulation, herbology, aromatherapy. I read old wives' tales, which have a ton of information about the myriad ways that native plants have been used for centuries, and I really started understanding the link between skin health and other kinds of health that we pay perhaps more attention to. |
| Jodi Katz | So does taking care of your skin in this way help the lupus or- |
| Rachel Winard | Oh, yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | ... it's just ... Is it treating a symptom? How does it impact your wellbeing overall? |
| Rachel Winard | A little bit of both. When my skin feels good, I feel good. When I feel good, the lupus is less likely to flare, which is exactly what I'm ... That's actually the perfect way to sort of encapsulate what I mean by skin health is public health. If you feel good, it's such ... It's like unquantifiable how that impacts every other part of you. |
| Jodi Katz | Right. When you are actually feeling good, then it's the lupus is not ignited, right? Like when you're starting to feel bad, it could be emotionally, it could be anything, it ignites the lupus symptoms? |
| Rachel Winard | It's more likely to. Stress is definitely a trigger for me. I mean, there are other things that are out of my control for flares, but everything that I can control, I absolutely do. |
| Jodi Katz | So how does lupus affect you every day, other than your skin? |
| Rachel Winard | I really try not to allow it to. So what I do is make sure I listen to myself. If I start to feel a little rundown, as much as I hate saying no to things, I have to start saying no to things. Other non-negotiables for me are that boxing and yoga that I mentioned, like I have to. My body is a physical body. Like I have to move, and more than that, I have to get out of my head, and both of those particular activities for me do that. I like to be really creative, so I have different creative outlets that I do. I play violin, I garden, I become like a crazy mixologist with the skincare. I'm constantly exploring new formulations and combinations of ingredients and see how they work. So all of that sort of feeds into a sense of wellbeing that makes me feel good and normal. |
| Jodi Katz | Right. So what I'm seeing is a thread between all the things we talked about, this idea of, to feel whole, you have to work hard at it, right? You had to do that with music, right? |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | If it filled you in such a way that you wanted to, but you had to work hard at it, which meant you weren't waking up at 10:00 in the morning and just playing and then going out with your friends at night. Right? |
| Rachel Winard | No. |
| Jodi Katz | You were really working hard at it, and to just feel whole and healthy, you have to work hard at it. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | And I mention that because I think some people, when they get down in the dumps, they're getting down in the dumps because things aren't happening easily. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. Yes, yes, yes. |
| Jodi Katz | But we all have to work at happiness. |
| Rachel Winard | I'm so glad you said that. I think there is such a fantasy about good things in life come easily, and if you have to work for it, maybe it's not the right fit. No. The good things in life you have to work really, really hard for, and the piece of advice ... Like I always get asked from people like, what would you tell the next wave of women coming up who want to start their own business? And I always say the same thing. Put your head down and do the work. It's like the least sexy piece of advice you'll get, but it's accurate. Try to drown out all that noise and focus on what you want to achieve, because you can control that. |
| Jodi Katz | That's right. I think that there was a turning point for me because, I don't know, maybe movies or TV put this notion in my head that like magically the success is going to happen, and well, I see it happening for other people. It's not happening for me, feel down in the dumps, all these feelings of compare and despair, like all this stuff. When I just accepted that I have to just keep moving forward and that I'll find the path even though I don't really even know what road I'm on, once I accepted that everything became much more joyful, easier, more fun, and it works. |
| Rachel Winard | Exactly. |
| Jodi Katz | I saw the payoff that I was always desperate for. |
| Rachel Winard | Yeah. I mean there's really no such thing as an overnight success. If you look at those stories, you're like but they've been working their butts off for 12 years before they got "discovered". |
| Jodi Katz | That's right. |
| Rachel Winard | There's a lot of behind the scenes work that go into these stories that we get presented with of like I just woke up and everything fell into place. |
| Jodi Katz | That's right. And even the people who make it seem like everything is easy, it's really not. They are just hustling so hard, and they're so good at it that they make it look easy, but that's because they become accustomed to it. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | When I have these low moments, I think of George Clooney. He's my example for this because it was many years of being just maybe a working and non-working actor before ER happened. There was Facts of Life for a ... I think it was Facts of Life he was on for a little while, but you know, like a lot, a lot of years of being not George Clooney the way that we know him. Right? And maybe he wasn't even like 40 something until this happened. So everything we have to work hard for, and I see this thread in everything that you're talking about today. |
| Rachel Winard | Oh, yeah. I'm a firm believer in working really hard. Plus, it feels better when you achieve that goal. You know the blood, sweat, and tears that went into it, and it feels just, it feels really good. |
| Jodi Katz | Yeah. There's a ton of dignity in realizing that I made something happen. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. Like there's a lot of pridefulness that I think is really healthy. I just put my foot forward every single day. Didn't know what was going to happen, and that's okay too. I think there's also a concept that like you have to know what the end point is before you start, which is just never the case. You'll never really know because things happen. Life changes. You make discoveries along the way. So you don't have to know everything to start, but you do have to start. |
| Jodi Katz | Yes. Yes. Okay. This is so helpful for me today. I needed to hear this. |
| Rachel Winard | Oh, good. |
| Jodi Katz | Okay. So I'm going to shift gears with our last section of questions, and we're going to focus on deodorant. |
| Rachel Winard | Okay. |
| Jodi Katz | So when I first met your brand, I think ... I don't know if it was in a gift bag, or you know, it was like at an event and I received a Soapwalla deodorant, and it's in a little pot. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | And it's not like a roll on or a rub on or ... I don't even know what we call them. Roll ons? |
| Rachel Winard | Mm-hmm (affirmative). Stick. |
| Jodi Katz | Sticks. Right, right. So like I grew up with a stick, and then I moved to a roll on as a, I don't know, a teenager. And it's a pot, and I'm supposed to dip my hands into it and rub this, massage this into my armpits, and it felt so strange, so I never did it. You told me that you're going to tell me why I do need this. |
| Rachel Winard | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | I want you to tell me why this is fantastic, and then why using it the way that you suggest is fantastic. |
| Rachel Winard | Okay. So the ingredients that we use are nearly all edible. Really, aside from the essential oils, they're all food grade. So the powders and clays are naturally going to help absorb. It's not an antiperspirant, so it won't stop you from sweating, which I personally think is a good thing. Sweating means your body is doing what it's supposed to do. It's called homeostasis. It keeps you from burning up. The essential oils in there are naturally antibacterial, antimicrobial, antifungal, so they stop any bacteria from forming, which is generally what causes that odor. So at the end of the day ... First, I think they smell really good just on their own. |
| Jodi Katz | Yeah, I just opened the citrus one. Smells great. |
| Rachel Winard | Yeah, that one smells delicious. But at the end of the day, not only do you not smell badly, but you also don't even really smell like the deodorant because the essential oils have neutralized themselves throughout the day. So it's really, you put it on and then you don't think about it for the rest of the day. And I'm such a believer of the pot because one of my personal pet peeves is, first, way too much packaging, and also when I can see like there's a quarter of the product left and I can't get to it. That really does kind of make me crazy. I'm like, I can't get to it. Do I take a hacksaw to this? Like how do I actually get the rest of the product I paid for? |
| Rachel Winard | So you get 100% out of this pot. It's super easy to travel with. It's a solid, so it's not even considered one of your little wet products for traveling. Because it's 100% natural, you can put it wherever you want additional coverage. We have professional athletes who put it on the bottom of their feet if they get very sweaty, stinky feet. We have a couple of politicians who use it on their hands if they're like shaking hands with 200 people in a 30 minute period. You could- |
| Jodi Katz | But how does that help? Because it's not stopping me from sweating, so how does that help the palms? |
| Rachel Winard | My guess is for the palm, it also helps provide a little bit of a barrier so that your skin doesn't just become raw. |
| Jodi Katz | Oh, I see. |
| Rachel Winard | But also if you get sweaty hands when you get nervous, it will absorb some of that. |
| Jodi Katz | Oh, okay. |
| Rachel Winard | So it won't stop it completely, but you won't be Drippy McGee. |
| Jodi Katz | Drippy McGee for governor. |
| Rachel Winard | Exactly. |
| Jodi Katz | Okay. So what does the deodorant not have in it that I'm used to using? |
| Rachel Winard | If you use a commercial antiperspirant, it won't have any of the aluminum compounds that are often in there. The aluminum compounds are what stop you from sweating. They cause your skin cells to swell. They swell shut. That's why the sweat doesn't escape, but you're going to sweat more elsewhere because your body is going to ... Bodies are amazing. They will always compensate. They're working for you the entire time. So if there's a system that's getting thwarted in one place, it's just going to compensate elsewhere. |
| Jodi Katz | Right. And is this your best selling product? |
| Rachel Winard | It is, yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | And is this the first product that you created? |
| Rachel Winard | No. The first two products I created when my skin was at its worst. I couldn't even use water on it. It was just so inflamed and painful, so I made a cleanser, which is our Lavender French Clay Soap Bar, which is still for sale, and a moisturizer, which is our Restorative Face Serum. Those were the first two products. I figured I needed to cleanse and moisturize, and then I could figure everything else out later, and yeah, they're still ... And those two are two of our best selling products as well. |
| Jodi Katz | Oh, that's cool. Well, I'm so glad that we sat down together today. |
| Rachel Winard | Me too. This was great. The time flew by. |
| Jodi Katz | I'm glad that you're feeling better. |
| Rachel Winard | Thank you. |
| Jodi Katz | I'm so grateful for the point of view that you bring to the show, so I'm thrilled. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. |
| Rachel Winard | Thank you very much. |
| Jodi Katz | And for our listeners, I hope you enjoy this interview with Rachel. Please subscribe to our series on iTunes, and for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast. |
| Announcer | Thanks for listening to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders. |
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