Episode 75

Freelancing isn’t for the faint of heart: No two days are the same, and neither are the paychecks. But there’s a delicious freedom that comes with being your own boss and taking full agency over your career. On this episode, beauty writer and freelancer extraordinaire Gina Way breaks down the strategies that have kept the projects – and the checks – rolling in. From how to hustle, how to get paid and how to pick yourself up when you feel like you’ll never work again, this is a must listen for anyone dreaming of breaking up with their cubicle.

AnnouncerWelcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™ hosted by Jodi Katz, Founder and Creative Director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi KatzHey everyone. Welcome back to the show. I am sitting next to Gina Way. She's a beauty writer, beauty editor and beauty expert. Welcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™.
Gina WayThank you so much for having me. I'm honored.
Jodi KatzI'm so excited that you're here. I think we got connected several years ago. I don't even remember who connected us. Is it possible that you remember?
Gina WayI don't remember. I hardly remember what I did yesterday. So, no. But I we were connected, and we kind of have interesting roads that join in different things. Like you worked for Mercia Kilgore. I had Marcia Kilgore on a podcast and so the beauty world is small.
Jodi KatzYeah, and it's so fun. I just really want to start with something that might seem odd to start with considering your expertise, but I really want to talk about your Instagram feed, because I love it.
Gina WayThank you. That means so much to me, because I'm my Instagram is not a beauty Instagram per se. It's truly my ... I enjoy it so much. It is very much a passion of mine. And so, thank you for enjoying it.
Jodi KatzI feel like it's the best of what editorial does for us, right? It gives me a new point of view on something, it makes me remember something I forgot, it brings to light something that I missed, right? So, you're able to take kind of what we're missing from the magazine world which is dying, and you're giving it to me for free on Instagram. And you have such a strong point of view and I just love it. I love your voice, I love your humor. Can you walk us through some of your ... You do series, right? [crosstalk 00:01:47].
Gina WayI am finishing up a new series right now. There's so much fun to do that just a little fun thing to do. So, I usually do #30daysof. I hope it's okay to say this. My first one was truly I was very passionate, it was during the whole me too thing, which is, of course still happening. It was at Christmas time of all things. The first one I did was #30daysofsexualpredators. It was like an advent calendar for creeps.
Jodi KatzThat's the first one you did?
Gina WayThat was the first one and it was a very popular, because sadly, there was a new one every day. I had to cut some people out. And then I did 30 days of crushes. They were all my crushes. And and now I'm doing 30 days of big primping, which is kind of more beauty and getting ready and behind the scenes kind of stuff.
Jodi KatzI love it because I really do feel like I'm there with you, which is I think the power of your voice.
Gina WayThank you.
Jodi KatzI feel like I'm in your kitchen, in your living room with you as you're conceiving of this having fun with it. I can see you smiling and giggling to yourself.
Gina WayOh my gosh, that means so much. Thank you so much. Because that's kind of what I want to convey, I hope I convey. The humor has to come through because I'm just completely myself on Instagram. Honestly, I really am. I'm totally authentic. If you follow me on Instagram and you feel like you know me, you kind of do a little bit because it's very much who I am and it's very personal. When I do post something that's beauty related or editorial related, whether it's something that I wrote for somebody or a product I love, I love it. I really love it. So, I don't just post selfies of me having coffee and putting a mask on. You'll never see me with the selfie with a mask on. No, none, none of that, no.
Jodi KatzWhat is the feed? So that we can get more eyeballs on it.
Gina WayIt's @ginaway1.
Jodi KatzOkay. G-I-N-A-W-A-Y-1.
Gina WayCorrect.
Jodi KatzOkay. I really recommend that people go there, because they will have a nice spirited moment with you.
Gina WaySpirited.
Jodi KatzBut it's not just that 30 days, and it's about the food.
Gina WayYes. Okay, that's true. We've talked about this before. I love food. One of the reasons that I love living in New York besides the culture and the art and the fun and the theater, because I'm a big theater geek, is food. It's entertainment. It's so awesome and delicious. I love taking pictures of it. I know millions of people do that. But I just have so much fun doing it, and even things I make. Yeah, it makes people hungry, I think.
Jodi KatzI don't know what it is about you, but I really do feel like I've gotten to know you. I notice it sounds so crazy, it sounds like a stalker kind of thing to say. But I feel like oh, I want to go to the theater with you. Let's make a theater date.
Gina WayEverybody says that to me, and I do make theater dates with my friends like that because they're just like, "I want to go to the theater with you." But sure, yeah, I love going to the theater and I love eating and I love all that stuff, and I love seeing art and stuff. I think that we talked about my ventriloquist, because I am obsessed with ventriloquist dummies. And Lori Simmons did a series in the 90s of ventriloquist dummies. I just went to that show at Mary Boone. I was just in dummy heaven, so I posted that too. It's very eclectic.
Jodi KatzWhat is it about the dummies that you love?
Gina WayWhen I was a little girl growing up in California, I wanted to be a ventriloquist. I probably wanted to be an old vaudevillian or something that's weird. I had a dummy, I had my own dummy and I would practice in my room my ventriloquism.
Jodi KatzAre you good at it?
Gina WayI don't know. I haven't done in years. I think my mom and dad threw away my dummy. He was very cute. So, yeah, I have a soft spot.
Jodi KatzDo all the dummies look the same? Always the bow tie and the blazer.
Gina WayThey always look very dapper. On my Instagram, you can see all her dummies. One is actually wearing a little pajamas and a robe.
Jodi KatzWow. Yeah. I feel like what you've done with your Instagram is really what Instagram was intended for.
Gina WayThank you.
Jodi KatzIt's giving me a way into your heart and your soul and the real you and not just Instagram face, which is what we see everywhere.
Gina WayWow. Means a lot, because sometimes I feel like oh, I should post more selfies, I should do what all the other girls do at beauty events and mug for the camera and stuff and I just can't. I just feel like a goofball. I can't do it. So, just have to be myself, which I think is really important with Instagram. Because we all see so much of the same stuff, and if you're yourself in anything, I think it really pays off.
Jodi KatzYes, I agree. Authenticity wins in the end.
Gina WayIt does.
Jodi KatzLet's talk about the varied career you've had, and let's start with the My Beauty Chat. Can you tell us what that is all about?
Gina WayYeah. Well, I just finished that kind of tour of duty at Hearst. I often go into Hearst, which is obviously huge publishing company in New York, to do maternity leaves or to do some kind of special editorial gigs and they're all freelance gigs. So, it's a timeline. So, I was there for the last eight months developing and creating a podcast for them that was sponsored by L'Oreal. It was called My Beauty Chat. I know that you know what this is all about. It was so much fun, because I kind of could create it from the ground up and they gave me a lot of autonomy. We had amazing guests on and we had Marcia Kilgore on and we just had great guests. We had so much fun, and it was terrific, it's still happening. I'm just not working on it.
Jodi KatzWhen you're doing your recordings, it's similar to this, like you're sitting in a room that has sounds proofing?
Gina WayYes.
Jodi KatzAre you at a table? Are there big microphones? You're wearing in a headphone? Do you want to tell me what's that like?
Gina WayYes. Headphones, big. And sometimes I wonder like, is that even for real? But it looks cool. Yeah, we had a little room, and it was on the popular mechanics floor, which was funny since we were having these like beauty conversations behind closed doors. It was great. It was a really huge different kind of challenge for me editorially. And the way that media is now and the way that media is changing, it was a wonderful opportunity to kind of do something different and work in audio. I was surprised to find how much I liked it. I really had fun. It was a really, really great experience.
Jodi KatzSo, you were charged with setting up the guests and creating the questions and leading the conversation?
Gina WayEverything. Yeah.
Jodi KatzAnd then would you have a full-time stuffer during the conversation too, or was it always just doing a guest?
Gina WayWe would have different beauty editors as the host. And then I would host sometimes and we'd kind of mix it up a little bit. So. we would have Leo Wyre as a host, Brian Underwood as a house. All these really big beauty editors at Hearst. And then we would have our guests and it's just a blast. It was only available on Amazon Alexa. So, if you have an Alexa or an Echo, you can still ask for My Beauty Chat. Ask for a beauty tip, and I think it will get you there.
Jodi KatzWas there an engineer in the room recording the sessions?
Gina WayYes.
Jodi KatzRight. So, that's the opposite of what we do. We've done that before, and I just felt like well we are always working around the schedule of the recording studio and what they had available. And I'd if I need to move an hour, we can't move an hour because of rates. So, we just googled other ways to do it.
Gina WayYeah. It was nice to have those guys in there. They're an incredibly talented team, and it made me feel better, because we didn't know what the heck we were going to be perfectly honest. So, we were just winging it. I'm glad somebody who had some technical skills.
Jodi KatzYes. Well, I'm so excited to sit with you because we are basically in the same business. We're both, I guess audio entertainers? I don't know. What are we?
Gina WayI love that. We're audio entertainers. I feel like I should do a tap dance for you people right now.
Jodi KatzYeah. Bring out the dummy.
Gina WayYeah, bring up the dummy. Dany O'Day, where are you?
Jodi KatzOkay. Let's talk about your career, because our listeners are really, really, really hungry for journey information, right? They're either trying to pivot in their career and work up the courage to do it, or they're just starting on their career and they have no idea how to get where they want to go. Or, they're just like everyone else. They're just sort of floating along and trying to figure out is this right? Is this what it's supposed to be?
Gina WayI think we all say that all the time. So, don't ever think that you're asking the wrong question when you're thinking, "Is this where I'm supposed to be?" I asked it every day, literally.
Jodi KatzWell, your journey in the movie business.
Gina WayIndeed, I did. I'm born and raised in Southern California, went to UCLA and went straight into the movie business. Which strangely, in a very weird way, kind of led me to becoming an editor for print. Because I was working with scripts and screenwriters and beginning middle and an end of a story and kind of finding material and stuff like that. Then after that, that was my first career. I've done a lot of reinvention. I don't know what happened to me. I realize to this day I don't know why, but I moved to New Orleans. I just quit my job at Disney, working for a producer and I moved to New Orleans. My parents thought I was insane. I sold all my stuff and wow, that was a crazy thing to do because I don't know what I thought it was going to do there for work.

I stumbled into makeup and met the makeup artists there. If Susan spade is ever listening, you are the bomb. She was the makeup artist in New Orleans and she kind of took me under her wing and taught me everything.
Jodi KatzHow did you meet her?
Gina WayShe had a little cute store in Uptown New Orleans where they sold Mac and Kiehl's and did brows and massages, like a little spa. I walked in there and we became fast friends. She just taught me everything. And before I knew it, I was doing MTV videos that were filming there, and I was doing whole bridal parties, and I was tweezing people's eyebrows. I never thought I would ever do anything like that. It was hysterical.
Jodi KatzSo, you were working as a makeup artist, a commercial makeup artist?
Gina WayYeah. I still think it's hysterical, because I hardly wear any makeup, and I'm not that interested in makeup actually. But hey, it was a job and it was a really fun job in New Orleans.

So, I lived there for five years, and it was extraordinary. It's an amazing place to visit. If you've never gone, please go because it is fun, and moved to New York. I knew I could not be a makeup artist here because I just wasn't that good.
Jodi KatzWhy did you leave New Orleans? Why-
Gina WayI met the man who was going to be my husband, who's now my ex-husband, and so many changes, so many changes in life. We decided we wanted to move to New York and he got a job in New York, and I was pretty clueless. I didn't really know what I was going to do. Again, it seems like I keep stumbling into things, but there's some kind of weird strategy involved. Because everything does link together. I decided that I didn't want to do makeup, but I wanted to write about makeup and I wanted to use the editorial skills that I had to write about beauty, because I'm fascinated with beauty. Fascinated. Fascinated with the whole transformative aspect of it. The optimism of it, the psychology of it, primarily.
Jodi KatzBut what made you think that you could be a writer, right? You weren't writing in development and you weren't writing in New Orleans. So, why were you all of a sudden, let me spin my passions into writing? Why did it come about?
Gina WayI don't know. I just thought it'd be really fun to work for magazines and it just made sense to me. I knew I could write because I wrote in college, and I knew how to put a story together. I knew how to put words together, and I was an English major. So, it wasn't that far afield. It wasn't like I'm going to be a doctor. Now that would be crazy.

So, I ended up getting a job at US Weekly when Bonnie Fuller was there, it was the hottest magazine around at that time. And the whole crew of US, the whole editorial crew of US are still friends. It was boot camp. We worked constantly and it was crazy. Those are the days of when ... Those are the days. I remember when Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie hooked up, it was crazy. That's when that was. From there, I went freelance and started writing beauty in a freelance way.
Jodi KatzThere's two themes that I'd like to talk about, because they think there's two elements of the story that are going to be really helpful for our listeners. One is this idea of going from a two-income household living in New York City to becoming a one-income household. That's a whole lot of learning and managing, right? And then the second theme, which is not that far removed from it is life as a freelancer. We have a lot of listeners who they are hair stylists and makeup artists, they essentially are freelancers, right? Even if they have a job at a salon, they are freelancers.

I think understanding how you approach life as a freelancer, especially living in New York City where it's not inexpensive, would be really helpful. And then this transition from a two-income household. And of course, there's, I'm sure a whole lot of other emotional things that go with getting divorced and I don't want to push those aside entirely, but I think that just the nuts and bolts of how do I support myself now when I've been used to having that safety net of a partner.
Gina WayRight. Well, we didn't even have a two-income household. We had a one-income household and it was my husband's income and he had a hedge fund at the time. He does not anymore. And so, I was like, "Woo-hoo, let's go to Barney's." I got to say, I really enjoyed it. I missed the money so much, I'm not even kidding. I missed the security, I missed the trips, I miss the money, I missed the shopping. I just miss it all so much. I swear. I think I missed that more than my husband.

But anyway, we were together for about 17 years. Obviously, there's an emotional aspect to it as well. Divorce is really brutal. It's like a death. It really is very hard. When you live in New York and that person was completely supporting you, it is terrifying. So, the sad part of it was so secondary to oh my God, what am I going to do? This is a joke. I'm a beauty writer and I need to support myself and live in New York City and pay rent. I hadn't paid rent. I had no idea. It was like throwing a little toddler in the stream going, "There you go. You'll figure it out." I really felt clueless, and I had been pretty independent before. But I had done that thing, which I have to urge any young women not to do, which is become totally dependent on a man. I can't believe I did it. But I did it. And it felt really great and I enjoyed it. But then I really paid the price, because you just never know what life holds.

For me, and I know this is not the case for a lot of people, but nothing motivates me like abject terror. I am totally motivated by fear and panic. I work really well under deadlines. For that reason, I think I don't want to disappoint anyone. I was in a situation where I needed to make this work or figure something else out or move, and moving was my last resort. I did not want to do that. So, I really hustled. I think being a freelancer is, you have to be good at what you do, really good and finding your little niche. But I also think you have to be a hustler. If you're shy, or you're not aggressive about reaching out to people and figuring out ways to get what you want, it's not going to work for you. You also have to be very, very self-disciplined, which I am.
Jodi KatzLet's go back to this idea of fear as a motivator. Because when I get into this sort of anxiety fueled moments and usually around financial insecurity, I think that's what they tend to be about. I go into a hole. It's the opposite.
Gina WayA lot of people do.
Jodi KatzRight. I go into a hole and sometimes I like to sit with my anger and resentment and really feel it and I don't really want to get out of the hole so quickly. And then when I do want to get out of the hole, it's hard work to climb out of it. So, what you're saying is the opposite of this.
Gina WayA little bit. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of anger and resentment. I live in New York. When you're in New Yorker, anger and resentment is your daily MO. I'm constantly angry and I'm constantly resentful and bitter.

When you look on Instagram please, there are times I need to just take a break because it's like, oh, everybody's got families and everybody's got a house in the Hamptons and everybody's got money and everybody's doing something I'm not doing and that is just not healthy. It's also Instagram is all lies, people. Yes, I'm being myself, but I'm showing you the best of myself. This is curated. When you look at somebody Instagram and it looks fabulous. Maybe it's not that fabulous. So, don't feel so bad. But wait, how did we get here?
Jodi KatzI go in a hole you get fueled by fear.
Gina WayI get feel fueled by fear. I don't get fueled by anger or resentment or bitterness, all those things that I just have. Fear, it's a fight or flight thing, honestly. I think it's that kind of stress. I know I have to do it and I have to figure this out and no one's going to help me and I've got to do it. It's just a fight or flight thing. Push comes to shove, I'm going to figure this out, and I know I have to do it now because I have to pay my rent or my health insurance or something like that.
Jodi KatzRight. So, this divorce happens, I guess the split up happens first and then the divorce is paperwork.
Gina WayYeah, sort of.
Jodi KatzSo, you were living with somebody who's supporting you financially.
Gina WayIn high style.
Jodi KatzSounds amazing.
Gina WayIt was.
Jodi KatzAnd then literally, that gets cut away and you're on your own and you have no way to generate income. You have to figure this out?
Gina WayYeah. well, I knew I had a way to generate income, which was being a writer, but I did want to remain freelance actually, if I could. So, I kind of just dove headfirst into the deep end. To be honest, it was so long ago now, I'm trying to think how did I do it, but I got lucky and I worked hard to get jobs. As luck would have it, the freelance thing kind of worked out. Because when you're in New York in this business, you can get these kind of long freelance gigs, like we were just talking about with the My Beauty Chat podcast, and those are very lucrative gigs as a writer. When you have those, you don't need to hustle for like a feature story in a magazine or something of a story that you're writing on refinery, or something that your branded content where you're just cobbling together your monthly nut. Those are great, it's a lot of work, but it's great. And it kind of gives you the taste of having a job. You go to work every day, which I don't enjoy.
Jodi KatzBut what was the motivator to say, "I'm not going to go get that full-time job." Which would have probably for my financial security perspective feel safer.
Gina WayI don't know what I don't know. I just really like being freelance, but that wasn't enough. Believe me, to this day, and anybody who's listening, I would definitely take a full-time job if it was the right job and if it was something that I was excited by. I would 100% do it because the security is a wonderful feeling. All that stuff is really great, but I have to say in this environment now that we're in in media, freelance may be the way to go for a lot more people. A lot of people are freelance now, maybe not, maybe it's not their choice. Maybe they got laid off and they're looking for something, but a lot of people are freelance. So, the competition is fiercer as well.
Jodi KatzRight. As a freelancer, I run my own business so I sort of feel like I'm a freelancer still, but same mindset. At many points in my career, I've gotten laid off, and freelance and then fired and then freelance, right? It's just like thank God for freelance. It just saves the day.
Gina Wayyeah. But don't you kind of love it? Because it's all yours and it's very creative.
Jodi KatzYeah.
Gina WayLike what we're doing right now.
Jodi KatzI wouldn't have the courage to start my agency if I didn't know that running a business is basically like being a freelancer. It's all on me, right? So, being a creative in the city, you have so many opportunities as a freelancer. I got into beauty just by a freelance gig. I was a copywriter writing, I don't know, random stuff for banks and certain things and I got a freelance copywriting gig for Avon Mark. Remember that company? They were a younger brand.
Gina WayYeah.
Jodi KatzThat job I did a simultaneous as I have my full-time job, but it helped me get debt free. I was able to pay off my credit cards with that side gig, right? And I'm like, "Oh, I can do this. I can write about lip glosses and blush." It never even occurred to me to even want to do that. But it was just that one freelance gig that led to it, then another, and then another, and then another, ultimately realizing this is my expertise.
Gina WayYeah. It does kind of happen that way, but you make it happen that way. It's a combination of any other career. Luck and timing, hard work and hustle.
Jodi KatzRight. Let's talk about the nuts and bolts of being a freelancer. Money management, health insurance.
Gina WayI don't even know. To be honest with you, money management, I hate numbers. I hate to even think about a budget. I know how much I need to make and I just worked my off to make it. It's very hard being a freelancer in New York City unless you are a freelance something that makes them money. I don't know what is that. Something in finance. But as a writer, especially a beauty too, it's not the most lucrative thing in the world. I feel like I'm finally gotten to the top of my game and I'm still working really hard. It's just the way it goes, it's hard.
Jodi KatzRight. There have been times in my career where I have to penny pinch so much that I can't go get a coffee at the coffee shop. Have there been times in your career where you can't, you have no money for frivolous things, you just have to pay the rent?
Gina WayWell, we all have credit cards. So, there's that. And I always make my own coffee at home. I budget myself in that as we said before, I love to go to dinner. You're not going to see me going to Masa. I'm not going to go the most expensive restaurants, but I'm going to go to awesome restaurants that are reasonable. I try to only go out like three nights a week, as opposed to every night. Especially in the summer, you kind of want to go out all the time.
The one thing that kind of pains me that I can't do is travel. I would love to go to Paris. Again, I would love to go to Copenhagen. I would love to go to a lot of places. And my apartment that I love is pretty expensive, and it's like, "Well, do you want to live in this apartment, or do you want to go on trips?" So, you have to kind of make your choices sadly. It's a bummer. Real life, being an adult, all that.
Jodi KatzI have a friend, they left the city and they moved to Maine because it was way cheap to live there just for the reason of they wanted their money for travel. So, they could freelance from there-
Gina WayAnd that sounds amazing. I don't know about you, but I sometimes think if you do go someplace, you go to Portland, Oregon or Seattle, especially. I just feel like I could live here. I could just freelance from here, but could I though? Because I really am such a New Yorker at heart, and I love theater too much. I think I would be really sad. I would really miss New York so much, even though of course, I hate New York too.
Jodi KatzBecause you're a New Yorker. With the last few minutes, let's talk about this hustle because you keep saying that you work really hard, you work really hard, but what does that mean? What does it take? Are you constantly networking? Are you constantly literally asking for the work? How do you make the hustle happen?
Gina WayOkay. Well, again, I'm at a certain level, so not the beginning of my career or anything. At a certain level in your career, beauty as we were saying, is a really small world. And media is a small world actually. You just meet a lot of people. For listeners who don't know, if you're a beauty editor or a beauty writer, you're invited to events all the time. When I'm in a situation where I need to start hustling again, like after this My Beauty That gig, I start going to events. PR people invite you to events and you go and you see other beauty editors. You're just networking. It's all about networking. And of course, seeing new launches and products, which is great.

I always kind of have a game plan that's not written out, although I'm a big believer in to-do lists and do this and check it off. I love checking things off my list. But one thing for example, besides getting assignments, like I'm doing big features for different magazines right now simultaneously, you're always working simultaneously, hopefully on a lot of big stories or a couple digital pieces or whatever.

I kind of have a game plan in mind of what I want to do. Right now, I'm really fascinated with editorializing brand content. There are a couple brands that I am slightly obsessed with, because I feel like I want to get in there and kind of create their story or help create their story, because it's not there yet for some reason, in my mind. Maybe it is for them. And so, what I'll do is use the connections I have to get to the people that I need to get to at those brands. You're not begging for work, you're not like, "Hey, can I do something for you?"

I think the key, somebody had told me recently, is just like come up with a game plan. Go, "Hey, you know what? I am loving your brand and I just kind of what I'm seeing. I wonder if like we could work together." Don't ever make yourself less than. You're like star. Somebody also told me, somebody who is a big deal person at a brand, "You're the influencer." I think it's a big mind game that you have to play on yourself. I sometimes when I'm shy, or I'm going to a beauty event and I don't know who's going to be there, and I'm feeling shy and kind of insignificant, or I've had a bad day, or I didn't get some kind of gig or whatever, I just pretend I'm Madonna. I walk in there and literally pretend I'm Madonna. I just kind of like, I'm the queen. If you pretend you're Madonna, Beyoncé, whoever you want to be, that you're the queen, but you're still nice, so maybe Madonna isn't the best example.

I think that you have to do whatever you have to do to give yourself that kind of confidence. I think there's a fine line that see the you're not some kind of know it all coming in there. But I do know what I'm doing and when I'm passionate about anything, I love getting my hands in there. So, that's my next thing, is working with brands. But at the same time, I'll always write stories and you get to know editors and they assign you things, and you can pitch things. I've certainly pitched a lot of things that didn't come to fruition, unfortunately. But I have a lot of stick-to-itiveness.
Jodi KatzYou can do 30 days of ideas that went nowhere on your Instagram.
Gina WayI have one right now, and if anybody's listening, I have pitched this to a few places and it just didn't work. It's all about Princess Diana, because I was kind of editor in chief of a special issue about Princess Diana. It's all about Princess Diana and how she's so much like all of us with the way that she was with the man. So, anyway. [crosstalk 00:32:41].
Jodi KatzInteresting, that's a good one.
Gina WayI thought.
Jodi KatzYeah.
Gina WayYeah.
Jodi KatzI think there's a movie in that one.
Gina WayI think there's something, yeah. But it's true.
Jodi KatzWell, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us today.
Gina WayIt was a pleasure.
Jodi KatzI'm really happy that you're here. And for our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Gina. Please subscribe to our show on iTunes and follow us on Instagram for our show updates @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast.
AnnouncerThanks for listening to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™ with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.
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