Episode 71: Carla Ruiz, VP of Business Development at Johnson & Johnson and Alicia Sontag, Partner at Prelude Growth Partners

Consider this episode a double header on friendship and business. Alicia Sontag of Prelude Growth Partners and Carla Ruiz of Johnson & Johnson met on the job and have stayed friends ever since.

Over time their career paths have diverged, Alicia striking out on her own and Carla heading up Business Development at Johnson & Johnson, but their missions have stayed the same—helping the next generation of entrepreneurs create what they believe will become iconic global powerhouse brands. The pair reveal how it gets done from the perspective of a boutique growth equity firm (Alicia) and the perspective of a corporate behemoth (Carla), and how it helps to have a friend who’s got your back through it all.

Dan Hodgdon
AnnouncerWelcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® hosted by Jodi Katz, Founder and Creative Director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi KatzHey, welcome back to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY®. This episode is a double header. It features Karla Ruiz of Johnson and Johnson and Alicia Sontag of Prelude Growth Partners. And if you missed last week's episode, please check it out. It features Lee and Jeremy Edelman. They're the co-founders of Artis. Hope you enjoy the shows.

Hey everybody, welcome back to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY®. I'm sitting with two lovely ladies. I'm excited for—we can call this a double header?
Carla RuizYeah.
Jodi KatzA double feature?
Carla RuizSure.
Jodi KatzKarla Ruiz, V.P. of business abutment Johnson and Johnson and Alicia Sontag partner at Prelude Growth Partners. Welcome, ladies.
Carla RuizThank you.
Alicia SontagThanks.
Jodi KatzI'm really excited to have you here, today.
Carla RuizThank you.
Alicia SontagThanks.
Jodi KatzI want everyone to know that I feel a little pressure because I keep mispronouncing Alicia's name and I'm gonna work very hard all episode to get it right. Thank you for your patience with me.
Alicia SontagNo problem.
Jodi KatzSo, I love that you're both here together. This is so cool because we've hosted two people together before but they're usually partners in a business, right, and this is the first time we've had two people together to talk as friends.
Alicia SontagYeah.
Jodi KatzWhich is, super cool to me. You both met at J and J, right?
Alicia SontagMm-hmm (affirmative).
Jodi KatzAnd now you're work friends but you're also friends-friends, right. So, Karla, other than a podcast together, how else do you spend your time together?
Carla RuizThe funny thing is, as you said, we met through work, and I'd love to hear Alicia's perspective as well, but we saw eye to eye when we worked together. In terms of the strategy for the business, in terms of the assets that we were looking at, and I think from that, it naturally developed into a friendship. So, now, we both have kids. Our kids do play dates together. Considering, also, our schedules, I think we do a pretty good job at staying in touch and we do lunches, coffees very frequently to try to continue our relationship.
Jodi KatzSo, you have to really invest time in planning these moments together? It's easy to be friends at work 'cos you see each other all the time, but I've been really honest with my friends outside of work. Like, I really want to see you but I have no time to plan a date for the theater or plan a dinner, so just throw dates at me and I'll just put it on my calendar and I'll be there, you know. So, you both have crazy schedules. Alicia how do you actually get things on the calendar?
Alicia SontagI think, like Karla said, part of it's easy 'cos we both have kids and so we're thinking let's do a play date and there's always room on the calendar for a play date on the weekends, so I feel that's the easiest way to some degree.
Carla RuizAnd it's also, you know what, we speak the same language, right. So, when we meet, a good chunk of the time we're talking about what's happening in the market because we're both covering beauty in different but similar ways and then the other part is the personal stuff.
Jodi KatzRight. So, you both have kids on the younger side, so I remember my kids wouldn't let me finish a conversation. I'm so excited to sit with my friend and I never get to finish a conversation. Is that where you're at right now? You start a conversation, you try to continue it on, but the kids keep getting in the way?
Carla RuizI think we've both become professionals at mastering having half a conversation, dealing with a kid crisis, and coming back for the other half of the conversation I think is part of your skill set as a super busy, working mom.
Jodi KatzYeah, yeah. You can teach workshops on that. We can all use a little support there. Okay, so, let's start with Alicia. Will you tell me about your current role?
Alicia SontagSure. I, right now, am a co-founder and partner at Prelude Growth Partners, and Prelude Growth Partners is a boutique growth equity firm that offers capital and value and support to high growth brands. We really founded Prelude because we believe the entire industry is being regenerated. To us, that means the top 10 brands of tomorrow in every category will be markedly different than the top 10 brands of today. That means it's a very exciting time to be playing in this space. My partner and I had known each other for 20 years. We went to business school together. After school, she became an investor. She was with L Catterton, which is a major private equity firm in consumer space. They're ana amazing company. She was the first female partner there with an amazing track record. At the same time, I had been working in beauty, so I was with Estée Lauder for 11 years in different roles, and then at Johnson and Johnson where I met Karla, of course, as the Global President of Beauty, there. We just were sitting here, we're both 43, we looked at each other and said, "What do we want to be doing for the next 20, 25 years of our career?" And, you know, what could be more exciting and inspiring than helping the next generation of entrepreneurs create that next generation of what we believe will become iconic global powerhouse brands.
Jodi KatzI love this point of view. I mean, I don't know a ton about your side of the business and just learning about it, but my guess is most firms don't have a strong point of view from this marketing perspective. You want to help build the next number one brands in those categories versus we just want to see our money grow. Is this the distinctive point of view?
Alicia SontagI think it is a distinctive point of view. We're not the traditional, with all due respect, we're not two guys in suits coming in that are just looking at the numbers and looking at the balance sheet. We are super passionate about this space. We set ourselves up, purposely, as a firm that was founded 50% investing experience, 50% industry operating experience so that we can offer capital but we can also offer support where needed. We're not overly intrusive in any way. Entrepreneurs typically have a ton going on and they're managing a million different things and they would love to focus on what they're most passionate about, what they're most excited about and get not just capital but support in a couple of places, and that's what we're really there to do.
Jodi KatzI love this idea that now you're an entrepreneur and you're helping entrepreneurs. It's very different than getting a paycheck.
Alicia SontagYes.
Jodi KatzI've been an entrepreneur for 11 years and I totally wasted the feeling of security that you get when you have a full-time job. I didn't appreciate it at the time. It's a different mindset. When I talk to my clients or entrepreneurs, I get it. Every single dollar they spend is literally a dollar out of their pocket and it's a different feeling than, oh, we have a budget for the year and we're gonna spend it and if we spend the whole thing, we actually need to spend the whole thing because it doesn't look good if we don't spend the whole thing. It's the opposite. So, that mindset is gonna be really beneficial.
Alicia SontagYeah. I think we're definitely entrepreneurs, ourselves. We both left these really big roles to create this firm. It's a little bit like jumping off a cliff. We totally get it. We've set up our credit cards, and your incorporation, and literally talking to the guys to get a sign on the doors, and just the whole deal. We're done all of that. It's really fun and it's really exciting and I think, for brands that partner with us, we're in it. We're in it. Their success, the success of our partner brands, matters tremendously to us because it's our success, too, and we all want to succeed together. Hopefully, we can do that.
Jodi KatzThat's awesome. Okay, Karla, tell us about your role at J and J.
Carla RuizYeah, and before I do that, I just want to underscore what Alicia just said. I think, beyond their very strong investment thesis, it's a combination of two great and smart women that have highly complimentary skills. So, what they bring to the table is very synergistic and their approach to investing is unique to have, and hopefully we see more and more of this in the future, but you don't tend to see two female investors, not in New York, not in the U.S., more broadly. I've had the privilege of knowing them for a long time and I know the way that they operate and I would love for more people to get to know them and see their unique approach. I think it's highly remarkable and I admire what they're doing.
Alicia SontagThank you!
Jodi KatzThat's so nice!
Carla RuizAnd so, for me, as you said, V.P. of business development at J and J. My responsibilities are within consumer. I have global responsibilities for beauty, for baby, for femme care. For me, as a person and as a woman, these categories could not be more perfect and more fun. So, I love what I do. My background was in investment banking, so I've been able to marry that finance role with my love for these three segments, so I think it works beautifully.
Jodi KatzSo, for someone outside of your universe, when you say business development at J and J, does that mean your job is to acquire brands and grow J and J as a whole, that way?
Carla RuizExactly. My role is, across the board, in MNA and mergers and acquisitions, more broadly. The simplest way to think about it is acquiring a company, but we're incredibly flexible because of the breath of our firm. We can do full acquisitions, we can do minority investments, and come in with day two team to support the businesses that we invest behind in certain areas that we can provide support. You name it. We're a large organization. RND, distribution, marketing advice, trademark patent advice, regulatory advice as they think about their next chapter of their business. But, it can also be as small as licensing opportunity, or investing behind a technology that we think has good potential.
Jodi KatzIt's so fascinating. So, this leads me to the first topic I wanna talk about today. What was cool about putting together this podcast today, is I had individual conversations with both of you and then I wanted to bring the threads together because you work at two different companies, two different paths. The first topic I thought about was this merger of the world of finance and creativity. I never thought that I would say those words together as meaningful together, but I see that in your roles, in your careers. I have total envy of it because I just thought finance was never gonna be for me. I had tons of friends in college that wanted to go get jobs in banks and I don't know what that means. It's not for me. And now, as I unravel what your roles are and your peers and other companies, that's really exciting. We can start with you Alicia. What is creativity and finance and how do they merge for you?
Alicia SontagThey merge. It's absolutely a merger of the two, which is what makes it so fun and so exciting. I would say, right now, what we see happening in this space, broadly, is there's new generation of consumer, (and I'm starting with the consumer for a reason) is the millennial consumer that will then be followed by Gen C and that consumer is now the biggest demographic and in four years will become the biggest spending demographic. There's a big wave coming through the pipeline that looks very different from the generation ahead of them, in terms of preferences. They're looking for brands that are authentic, transparent, aligned with their values, health and wellness. It's the set of criteria that's very different and they're influenced differently, obviously, with advent of social digital. They shop very differently with the endless digital shelf and the impact, in turn, that's had on brick and mortar. So, what's happened is there's an entirely different landscape, and against that we see entrepreneurs creating these incredibly high quality brands and generally there's entrepreneurs that have a really authentic story that have a really compelling brand that for one reason or another is really resonating with the consumers. They're getting buzz and followership. They've created some sort of product that's a really high quality product at differentiated from its competitive set.

So, we look at all of that, which is a little bit of magic that these true creatives are creating from scratch, and from their hearts, and from their souls. We feel like, where we can come in, as Prelude, is having deep appreciation for that skill set and that creativity. You know, I worked together, when I was at Lauder for four years with Bobbie Brown and she's an icon in the industry and has exactly that. She knew every product, in every shade, in every image. She just knew exactly what she wanted to do with her brand. So, as Prelude, we can come in and really help people who've built these phenomenal brands and they've gotten to a certain point but now it's really ready for the pedal to hit the metal and get the next stage of growth and that's where the finance comes in. We can offer capital and on our own side, be creative in terms of how we're supporting these brands. Some brands as for help on strategic marking. Some brands ask for help on building a direct business. Some brands need help on supply chain. Everybody needs something different or maybe they don't need anything, at all, but most people want help in one place or another. We can really get creative on how we do that and how we support the entrepreneurs in achieving their vision.
Jodi KatzOf all the words you just told me, only one of them was a word about a number, which is so funny to me. Is there actually a lot of numbering things happening behind the scenes?
Alicia SontagThere are. I would say at Prelude, for sure. We sit and we look at numbers backwards and forwards and all of the stuff, but most important is if you have an amazing founder and an amazing brand. All of the rest will follow. That's why we always start with that because that's just the most important thing. We have a deep respect and appreciation for that. We know the numbers. I've run businesses that were 30 million dollars in sales, 10 million dollars in sales, billion dollars in sales. So, I'm deeply familiar with every number and every decimal point on the PNL and how to make the whole thing work, but it's just all of that stuff is secondary to what you're actually doing and delivering to the new consumer.
Jodi KatzGot it. Okay, so Karla, at J and J, which is this giant, giant, giant, giant, account. You go so far beyond beauty in Johnson and Johnson. How does creativity merge with finance for you?
Carla RuizFor me, personally, I'll tell you, and I should do more of it, but I used to paint and sculpt. So, I think creativity has always been part of my life, but putting that aside, for us, the answer is not to dissimilar to what Alicia just mentioned in that my job is to meet with these amazing founders and on a weekly basis I'll meet with a number of them. They live and breathe their brand, their baby. They think in very creative ways. They're very nimble in their approach and it's just, for me and for all of us at J and J, incredibly inspirational to be able to connect with them and to learn more about what they're doing and their way of things done from point A to point B. They're understanding of the consumer. There's a lot there. In addition to that, I think, if you think about the world of beauty and how it had evolved over the past 5, 7 years, I think we've done 180 degree with the advent of social media, the way that the consumer touches and feels and understands and initially connects with the product, materially different from the way that it used to be.

So, for us, as an organization, we're also changing the way that we look and the world and therefore, our strategy and therefore, our approach to brands. And so, we look at these founders and the brands that they own and we, honestly, don't come in, as you said, as the big guy. We come in as, we want to learn from you and if there are areas where we can provide support, we'll do that, but your creativity is something that we want to foster within our environment and support you in different functional areas, as needed.
Jodi KatzMm-hmm (affirmative), yeah, my jealousy is growing. This is really cool. But, you know, I have this job. I guess I just do it and I'll just admire yours.
Carla RuizOh, your job is so fun.
Jodi Katz[laughs] It is fun, but it's just so striking to me how I just put up a wall and said that's not for me and I'm realizing it could've been for me, but I wasn't that open-minded back then. But, I didn't know and the business was different then too. Maybe your business would've been not as creative 20 years ago.
Alicia SontagMaybe. I also think, honestly, what Karla said earlier where there's frankly not a lot of women like in her role as a V.P. of business development at J and J. That's an enormous role. It's a pretty male dominated industry. Private equity is a pretty male dominated industry and I think, at least when I was graduating from college, it just wasn't that traditional to have women in that field. I can't remember exactly, but the fraction of the class was women. It was majority male. It's exciting to be doing what we're doing but I also think that kids, today, you're seeing different things in front of you and the world is changing for the better that way.
Jodi KatzThat's awesome point, yeah. Thank you. So, you actually walked me right into the next topic, which is ambition. So, Karla, we'll start with you. You grew up in Peru.
Carla RuizI did.
Jodi KatzAnd you had your sight set in your career in New York. I grew up in New Jersey, so it wasn't hard for me to say I want a career in New York. I just took a train or a bus, but you really had to work for it and plan for it. I wanna know, why was this important to you and what did you have to do to make it happen, as a teenager in Peru?
Carla RuizI think it was, obviously, hard work, dedication and persistence, and the end of the day. So, I had an end goal. When I was in Peru, the career opportunities were limited. Coincidentally, when I left, everything changed and so GDP growth is there, foreign direct investments, stable currency, low inflation, you name it. So, that has attracted a lot more business. There's a stronger infrastructure. The country, overall, is doing incredibly well. So, had it been 10 years after, I think the story might've been different. At that point in time, to really pursue a career that would challenge myself, I, personally, wanted to explore a larger pool of opportunities, if you will. The U.S. is an amazing country. There is the breath and the skill set of the individuals that have been fortunate enough to work with. It's privilege for me. That's what motivated me to find more and better, at that point in time.

I came here through B school. I feared if I didn't do that first, like that would be a perfect platform to establish a network, to learn a different way of doing things. So, I did that back in 2004. Ever since, I've had a great ride. I've really enjoyed being here and the atmosphere and the pace. I've always been in New York. It was a sacrifice because at that point, I left family. I left friends, but I've been able to build my own ecosystem here and I love it.
Jodi KatzThat's awesome. Well, on top of ambition, for Alicia, you left an awesome job that you really loved at Lauder, multiple roles at Lauder for many years, and you took a huge role at J and J. I'm curious. I would love to be in your mind, at that moment. How hard was that decision and when you looked at your pro-con list, what one pushed you over to taking the new job?
Alicia SontagOh, my gosh. I think when I left Lauder, it was so painful because I had been there for 11 years, and I loved the company, and I loved the people, and all of my mentors were there with the Jane Hudonsons and Jon Dempsies and Jane Lauder. I think I spent a month, every single night, in tears, to be honest, at home questioning am I making the right decision. It's just, Lauder is an amazing company. They have amazing brands. They have amazing people. I was able to have really strong impact there on the brands I worked on like drive and growth, delivering results, innovative marketing. But, at the end, what happened was J and J, which is also an amazing company with amazing people and amazing brands, had given me this amazing opportunity to be the Global President of Beauty, which is a massive role. It's 12 different brands. I met with Sandy Peterson, who was the worldwide chairwoman, super senior amazing person.

I said to her, "What are the top three priorities for my new role?" And she said, "Well, you're gonna tell me," and I loved that. I just thought, "Oh, my gosh. I'm gonna get to tell them!" And, in fact, that's what happened. For such a big company, as Karla said, it's really doing things differently. It's very entrepreneurial. You really could have impact on a big scale and I just felt nervous in my heart that if I didn't take it I would always wonder "what if" and I didn't want to ever have a regret like that, so I figured it was better to take the leap and try than potentially have a regret. Frankly, the same thing, when it came to Prelude, when I left J and J to found Prelude, which was another super difficult decision 'cos you're sitting in an enormous role, you're doing amazing things, you have an amazing salary and income and I'm the bread winner for my family, and you're saying, "Does it really make sense to give this all up to start from scratch?"

But, I really felt as though what's happening in the market is so exciting, my partner is a really amazing person. It's rare to have an opportunity to partner with somebody like that. And, it was the same thought. We've gotta give it a shot because if we can make this work, we will be the iconic name in this space, ourselves, and what would be more exciting than doing this for the next 20, 25 years and looking back at all the brands that we've really helped flourish. I think those moments are super difficult, but at least, for myself, in those moments, I've pushed myself to the uncomfortable side of the curb. When I was making that decision, I was scrolling through Instagram that night, of course, as I always do, looking at your feed and all the different things and at the moment that I was making the decision, this quote came up that said, "You can be comfortable or you can be courageous, but not both." And I was like, "Alright, that's it. I'm going for courageous. It's happening."
Jodi KatzSo, you're saying Instagram inspired you?
Alicia SontagYes [laughs]
Jodi KatzThat's so interesting because my follow up question is gonna be, do you have a team to help support you? Like, I have a coach and then I have a second coach and I have a therapist and I really need a village. It takes a village to keep my head screwed on, you know. So I can feel like I'm really thinking clearly and I have the support around me. Other than Instagram, did you have other people to support you, not just for starting Prelude but also for leaving Lauder?
Carla RuizHonestly, before she answers that question, I'll say it because she probably won't, but she has or had and still has a phenomenal reputation, and I know first-hand, at both Johnson and Johnson and Estée Lauder, so it can't have been an easy decision to do what she did and I'm incredibly proud of her.
Jodi KatzThat's so nice. I love how the friendship theme keeps coming between the two of you. That's awesome. So, I mean, do you just talk to your friends, write things down, make a decision?
Alicia SontagYeah, for me, I don't know for Karla, but yeah. For me, I definitely have my friends, of course, a couple of close friends, honestly, like friends from business school that you're still close with, my family, my nanny, and she's not even a nanny she's the most important person in my life, basically, an amazing and wonderful in her own right. So, yeah. I think it's just talking to people, and absolutely, I do a whole crazy thing where I put all the things that I care about in life and then I rank my opportunities on each of those attributes and then I weight the attributes by how important they are to me and then I come up with a numerical sum of which thing scores higher. At the end of the day, it's your gut, but I feel more confident putting math around it.
Jodi KatzYou gather data from the marketplace. [crosstalk 00:28:46] I will ask for you to give me a tutorial on how to develop this chart offline because this is amazing. So, you look for data in the marketplace to support your decision-making on this, which is your job. [crosstalk 00:29:01] thank you for doing that. I'm really curious. I would love for you to teach me how you do that. This is incredible.

Okay, let's talk about our last theme together, which is seeking out growth, which is the industry that you're in, right, what you drive. And, you'll both be speaking at the Beauty Money Summit in September in New York and I'm happy to say our podcast is a media partner for the event, which is super cool for us. So, for a brand looking to make relationships with people in your space, how can they best leverage these types of events, and Karla, we'll start with you on that.
Carla RuizI think it's a unique opportunity where investors, whether it's a private equity sponsor or a strategic, come to the same place to connect with, ultimately, entrepreneurs and learn more about their businesses. It's a very efficient way to do it with multiple people and get to compare and contrast immediately, there.
Jodi KatzIs it like speed dating?
Carla RuizIt's a little bit like speed dating. In particular, you'll see it at the event, but it's good and it's fun and it's helpful. At the end of the day, for us, is particularly helpful because they'll be able to see beyond what I referenced earlier in terms of our capabilities. We are good people. We are very approachable. We have an incredible set of values. Our culture is very unique. Our cerato, I mean, oh, my God. We live and breathe by our cerato and that translates into the relationships that we build and into the businesses that we look to partner with, as well. So, it's incredibly important for us.
Jodi KatzSo, what can the brands who are looking to engage with you, how are they best prepared when they come to an event like this?
Carla RuizI think just knowing their elevator pitch, if you will, which they should, by definition. But, you know, talking about their brand positioning, talking about their next stage of growth and how do they see somebody like Johnson and Johnson coming in and potentially providing support. We'll add our own views to that, as well, obviously. And, having that willingness to connect to potentially seek help in that next stage, whether it is through distribution or innovation or marketing or you name it. We're there, first and foremost, to let them know who we are, what our values are, and to connect. It's all about the human connection. If we're doing a transaction, which of course, at the end of the day, numbers and the value that we put on a potential acquisition is important. For these founders, they built a business, likely from scratch, so it is their first, second or third baby. It's their baby and they want to make sure they're sharing their baby with somebody they know they can trust and somebody that they know can help bring the business to the next level. So, that's very important for us to be able to convey that from the get-go.
Jodi KatzSo, Alicia, what are you looking for when discovering brands? And I guess, I have a question for you. Are you competitors with each other? Or you're different stages of the cycle?
Alicia SontagI think we're broadly at different stages.
Carla RuizI think we're partners.
Jodi KatzLike complimenting each other?
Carla RuizYeah.
Jodi KatzOkay, got it. So, what are you looking for when you're meeting with new brands at events like this?
Alicia SontagWe're always looking to meet brands we, often times, like to establish relationships with. Our firm invests behind brands that are roughly five million dollars in sales to 25 million dollars in sales because for us, that's the point at which, they've launched, they have the brand up and running but they need that additional support now to get to the next level. So, that being said, I think at this type of event, yes you like speaking to brands that are exactly in your sweet spot and our sweet spot is probably a lot more defined than at Johnson and Johnson, which has the full gamut, but we also love meeting brands that are smaller than that because we connect, we hopefully can do something to help. We believe in good karma. Maybe we can help them find a trademark bowyer, whatever it is they need, a relationship with a retailer, and down the line it's the right fit and if not, that's also great. We just want to help other people in this space.
Jodi KatzRight. So, for you, you're there to connect, not necessarily to transact. You're there to just build on connections and the power of connections.
Alicia SontagFirst and foremost is to connect and ultimately, of course, we hope the right things lead to formal partnerships where we're an investor and a partner with brands. I would guess that that never happens instantly, in a day. If you haven't met yet, it's usually just the first meeting and then you go from there.
Jodi KatzRight. It's not a love at first sight, I'm gonna marry that brand, kind of feeling.
Carla RuizSometimes.
Alicia SontagYeah, it's not a love at first sight, I'm gonna marry the brand. It's just, how we met is it won't literally happen on the spot.
Jodi KatzRight, I know it's not an actual event. I'm just- I never sought out financing. It's a world I don't know. So, it sounds to me like an other part of the sales process where you can't look at these opportunities like you're a piece of red meat and I'm gonna sell to you. The brands need to look at these opportunities like "I'm gonna connect with you, I'm gonna connect with you, and you might connect me with somebody else."
Alicia SontagAbsolutely.
Jodi KatzRight, and who knows where that conversation goes. So, what is J and J and what kind of brands are you looking to meet at events like this?
Carla RuizWe have a pre-established strategy, obviously, organically but also inorganically. At times, it's difficult in the sense that you meet these amazing brands that you know are going places, incredible founders, but we have to stay disciplined and aligned to our strategy. Of course, our strategy gets reviewed on an annual basis and we can adjust and correct based on what we see, in terms of future trends. But, I would say, generally speaking, we're looking for great founders, a solid management team, a track record of growth with still wide space because, of course, we want to be able to leverage who we are to help them grow even further. A brand that has international expansion potential, is important, so we can leverage our international network. A brand that, therefore, translates into several different markets. It's not so localized that perhaps you can't expand further or it would be a little bit harder to do. Yeah. As much as we are a public company, and growth is important, we will always look at a PNL, but PNL is secondary. We can help fix a number of things in partnership. I think what's most important is the uniqueness of the brand proposition and the strength of the management team.
Jodi KatzI love it. I want to shadow our apprentice with you, or something. I'm really fascinated. It's incredible. I'm so thankful that you both shared your wisdom with our listeners, today. And, for our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview, as well. Please subscribe to our series on iTunes, and for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram @WhereBrainsMeetBeautyPodcast
AnnouncerThanks for listening to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.

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