Episode 69: Barry Beck, Co-Founder and COO of Bluemercury

Every entrepreneur has a different reason for going into business for him or herself. For Barry Beck, Co-Founder and COO of Bluemercury, it was a desire for personal autonomy, but even deeper than that, an almost instinctive need to disrupt and change industries. And that he has done. From snow shoveling loyalty programs at age 10 to forever changing how consumers shop for beauty, he’s changed every industry he’s worked in.

In this episode, he shares key lessons from his many successes, and not just tidy platitudes about working hard. Consider it a key primer in entrepreneurial wisdom.

Dan Hodgdon
AnnouncerWelcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® hosted by Jodi Katz, Founder and Creative Director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi KatzHey, everybody. Welcome back to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY®. I'm sitting here with Barry Beck, Co-Founder and COO of Blue Mercury. Welcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY®.
Barry BeckThank you. Thank you for having me.
Jodi KatzI'm really excited to sit with you today. I think that when we first talked, I realized that you are very contemplative and very thoughtful about the history of building your business and beyond that. I think our listeners are going to get a lot out of that today. Let's start with a really easy question. How will you spend your day today?
Barry BeckI’m gonna spend a wonderful day with you and then I'm going to meet with a couple of different young, emergent brands and see what they're up to and understand what their innovation runway is and whether they're a good fit for Blue Mercury. Then I am going out for a show tonight to see Mean Girls with my wife.
Jodi KatzOh, that's so fun. That's really cool. It's a date night.
Barry BeckIt is. I'm excited.
Jodi KatzWell, we're going to get to life with your wife towards the end of our conversation because that's what everybody wants to hear about. We'll get there. Let's talk about growing up because you were really revealing with me on the phone about what it was like growing up. You told me that you experienced a huge difference in wealth between your household and your cousins household. I'm wondering, what kind of imprint did this make on you and what sort of drive did it pull in you?
Barry BeckGeez, I don't know that I ... Did I tell you all that? True story of my personal life. Yes, well, you know my father's father died when my father was very young. My father was on a Boy Scout trip to California and he was staying with his uncle. The phone rang and my father answered the phone and the voice on the other end of the phone said, "Stewart," that's my dad, "your father died today." This is a very different time. It was a long time ago. "You have to come back to Philadelphia and take care of your family. My dad was a young guy, 10 years old. He didn't know what to do, so he said he knew enough to get off the couch and turn off the television.

That's what he did. He waited for his uncle to come home. His uncle said, "Yes, you're going to have to go home and take care of your family." My father went home and he had two younger brothers and a mom. He took care of them. He was an incredible student. He was planning on going to MIT, but instead he had to stay in Philadelphia and go to the local Engineering School, which was a school named Drexel University where he met my mother. My father stayed in Philadelphia and bagged groceries which was really an incredible contrast to my mom, who was hailed from one of the wealthiest families in Philadelphia.

My mother's father was the original manufacturer of Izod Lacoste, the crocodile brand. He partnered early on with a tennis player known for his aggressive tennis style. A guy named René Lacoste, the crocodile. He had a wildly successful career in textiles. Really a conglomeration of textile companies. He was really operating at the highest level of business in Philadelphia, which at that time was the fourth largest city in America. You know, they looked at so many different businesses. I remember one day he came home and he said, "We're looking at a car company. Sebario. Maybe Suburu?" He said, "But who needs another car company?" That was a big miss, I guess, for my family.

My mother and father met at Drexel. They ultimately were married, and when they got married my grandfather said to my father, "Come work for the family business." My father said, "Well, I'd rather be poor than ever work for my father-in-law." That's what happened. I lived a very lower middle class life my whole life which was in great contrast to my cousins. We would have something called cousins club. My cousins, we would meet twice a year and I'd meet all the cousins. We had many different cousins. One of my particular cousins, who today I'm very friendly with, cousin Nancy. I still see her. She would come to cousins club. She was very adventurous and I’d say, "Where were you? What are you up to?" She says, "Well, we just got home from Colorado and we were skiing in Telluride." I just had never heard of that place and I'd never been on a plane before so I didn't understand why anybody would go to Colorado and ski.
Jodi KatzYou can go to the Poconos for that.
Barry BeckRight, in my mind all I could think of was well we could go to the Poconos, which was probably an expensive round trip, $30 or $50 or whatever that would cost. You know, I'd never done that either, but I knew in my mind that was something that was possible. We had an okay life in the sense that my grandfather always took care of us. My mom was upset about the neighborhood we were living in, it was a bad neighborhood, and my mom wanted me to be around people that in her mind were sort of "going somewhere" whatever that meant. My grandfather affected that for us. He picked us up and moved us to the worst street in the better school district. We were actually literally on the street. When you looked at our area code like the phone bill, we used to get these phone bills for your home, it would actually say, "The other town." We were in the new town.

We lived in this area and the better school district area called the Mainline of Philadelphia. I always sort of looked at this thing. It was never about a financial aspect, it was always about a perceived independence and autonomy that my cousins had. I think that really affected me.
Jodi KatzYou know, it's so interesting because it's actually your father who set this boundary of independence, right? By saying, "No, I'm not going to be forced into the business I don't want to be in with family members." He really stood on his own two feet for extreme independence. But you perceived the cousins having independence because they had money to go places, right? You actually were experiencing independence in both realms.
Barry BeckIn a different way, yes. You know, fast forward a few years. I'll never forget, my father is a very, you know, he grew up in a tough situation. You know, I love my father. He's still alive today and he's always, even to this day he said to me when I was a young kid, "You'll see, the older you get the smarter I'll get." He was right because to this very day I still call him for business advice, life advice, but he sat me down when I was at or about eight to 10 years old and he said, "You could be anything you want in the world. You could do anything you want as long as you own it." That's what he wanted for me. I think that really stuck with me. It really clicked for me and so, you know, I set out to start businesses and run businesses.
Jodi KatzRight, so you segwayed right into my next question. Thank you for doing my work for me. This idea of a parent saying to a child, "This is what you should do," there's a real opportunity to rebel against that, right? But you embraced it. You know, why do you think you were that kid that would embrace that mandate versus rebel against it?
Barry BeckYou know, it was really the sense of autonomy. I really wanted this independence and it was this drive. Certainly, I think about this a lot about how you create entrepreneurship. There is so much study around entrepreneurship and how to become an entrepreneur. I think that a lot of that is what's inside you. To be a disrupter, to go march to a different drum, because really this idea of innovation versus globalization… I mean, globalization is just taking what you do here and putting it somewhere else and creating this idea of some [inaudible 00:07:48] the best practice, we're the best at what we ... Yeah, but that's not innovation.

Innovation is splitting off and doing something completely different. Being very disruptive and I'm not sure that it's easy to teach that. For me, I started very young. I was eight or 10 years old and I started shoveling snow for every home in my neighborhood. $20 a driveway or something. The difference between me and everyone else is I set contracts in place with my customers and they got a 10-20% discount if they were loyal to me and they were loyal to me.
Jodi KatzHow did you know how to do that?
Barry BeckI just did it, I don't know. Maybe it was on a handshake, I just don't remember exactly how I put it together, but it was something that I did and it really worked. Funny thing is I took all the money, I made the coins and the dollar bills and I put them into little pill bottles and I lined them up in my room. In some small way, they signified or signaled an independence to me. I mean, it was small money. Nickles and dimes kind of thing, but it really signified this independence for me. In my mind, maybe I wasn't thinking about operating quickly in its scale that we think about today in business, but I was always looking for the next big thing. $20 a driveway.

Then I said well wait. I lived in this neighborhood, I was tangential to these wealthy families on the mainline and we were not one. I always thought what goods and services can I sell to them. I started washing their car, so it went from $20 a driveway to $150 to detail a car. Went out there with my q-tips, I mean, I was excellent at it. I was in Middle School. Then in Junior High School I started a company called American Landscaping. One Summer, maybe late in Junior High School I made $50,000 one Summer. Then I started another company which is really actually an incredible success story which was a company called American Window Washing. This idea of going at these large mansions on the Main Line and washing all their windows. I had this idea I would charge $3 for some windows, window panes, and $5 for another window pane, depending on how high they were in the house. You know, the height. All of the sudden I was charging $400 a house doing 5 houses a day, $2,000 a day.
Jodi KatzThis is in high school?
Barry BeckThis is in high school.
Jodi KatzAn after school job?
Barry BeckYeah, after school and weekends. I guess at one point I said to my parents, "I'm getting close to making $100,000 a year." This was a long time ago. They said, "You're making more than a lot of the doctors and lawyers we know." I guess at that point you said earlier maybe I'm a serial entrepreneur, I don't know exactly if that's what I am, but I knew at that point I was hooked.
Jodi KatzRight, so this idea early on at 10 years old, 12 years old stacking the coins on your shelf in the containers. I'm also imagining them lined up like trophies in someone else's bedroom. Right? Is that sort of what it felt for you? This sense of pride, this reminder of what you can do and where you can go?
Barry BeckAutonomy. It was this idea of autonomy. Of course, I didn't obviously understand at that time I couldn't pay for my kids education and school with pill bottles filled with nickles and dimes, but this is what it really was for me. I just was always looking for ... There's another incredible entrepreneurial guy, Marc Benioff. I just recently looked at his bio. He started Salesforce.com. Similar thing. Junior High School, started a company. High School, started a company. College, started a company and sold it. It was just always, it was in his blood and this is what it was. Some people have that spirit, desire to disrupt and change industries. That's really what was always burning inside me.
Jodi KatzWhat I'm hearing, which is so fascinating because I'm an entrepreneur, too. I'm not hearing this idea like I started a company and it failed. Then I started another company and it failed. I don't hear anything about failure, I just hear about shift and pivot and move and grow. Did you ever think about like “this isn't working, or this is going to fail, or feel self doubt in these moments?”
Jodi KatzWhy eating glass? What about painting that picture? Describe to me what that felt like? I have self doubt but I don't describe it that way so give me a sense of what that is to you.
Jodi KatzOh, that's so awesome.
Barry BeckPeople believed in us and we believed in ourselves and we fought our way through it, but for me to tell you about that it just doesn't mean anything. People saying, "Barry, you're such a seasoned entrepreneur." I was like, "I know, but when you season a piece of meat by beating it with a cleaver and rubbing salt in it, it doesn't feel that great. What comes out on the other end seems a lot more tender. This is the reality of what happened and I've had many, many experiences. One of the things I always tell young entrepreneurs is remember, the most important thing: droom.
Jodi KatzWhat was it?
Barry BeckDroom.
Jodi KatzWhat does that mean?
Barry BeckDon't run out of money.
Jodi KatzRight.
Barry BeckDon't run out of money because when you run out of money, you know, it's like I tell young kids it's like Pacman. You put those quarters in the machine and you play. When you have early last quarter it's game over. This is the thing, you've got to raise money when you can get it because when you really need it, it's nearly impossible to get.
Jodi KatzRight, desperation.
Barry BeckLook, it's not been a linear path for us but we fought through it. It's not natural. It's like giving birth to a business, right? I mean, this idea of innovation versus globalization. Anybody can open up a new store and try to do it better than the other guy, but to really create something new like Facebook out of nowhere. The Facebook, whatever they created. It's hard, it's just, you know, there's a book called The Hard Thing about hard things. It's very difficult. It's not easy to build a company and do something new. It almost takes a startup.

I always sort of reflect on this idea. Why didn't Google just make Facebook? Why not? Why didn't Ford or GM just make Tesla? It seems like it would be a silver plate for them. They can't. It's impossible. It's that process, the seasoning, getting beaten with a cleaver that boot strapping that drives and with a small group of entrepreneurs melding together of five or 10 people together in a room somewhere completely away from a big company where these new ideas are spawning. They're forced to innovate, forced to create something new. That's what happened. That's what happened with me and my businesses and that's what happened with all these companies. Facebook, soft micro. What was that company called, Microsoft? These companies that just come out of nothing. These companies that just come out of nowhere, why didn't IBM just create Microsoft? They could have done that. They couldn't. They couldn't. It was Bill and Paul off on their own that wrote a software program for Honeywell that ultimately changed the world.

I really believe that it's also about riding waves. It's my last thing I'll say on the subject. Which is I really fundamentally believe that there's no such thing, no such thing as a great entrepreneur that didn't ride some great wave. Bill and Paul rode this thing called the software raise. Jeff Bezoz, he rode the e-commerce wave. Rockefeller rode industrialization. Henry Ford rode the combustion engine. This is what it is. You can be the worlds greatest umbrella maker but I mean I'm not sure that's going to get you very far.
Jodi KatzThis idea of financial security, which you suffered through, right? Sounds like several times in your career. Is there any PTSD in there for you around that? That sort of like what keeps getting me. Like this is not nearly as large as yours, but the only thing that really bugs me and keeps me up at night and makes me have a weird twitch in my eye is when the cash flow gets low. I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be doing, networking, whatever. I don't have control over when that deal is signed.

The financial security I feel like I still have a bit of PTSD and I'm wondering is it ever going to go away or is it always going to be part of my story as an entrepreneur?
Barry BeckWell, I would say one of my things that I think is I have the luck and maybe it's a good thing about me and a bad thing about me at the same time is a very short memory. I tell my wife I'm the greatest husband in the world. I can't remember what happened yesterday. For me, I only look forward, right? I only look forward. Life is interesting in the sense that it's the only thing that you live forward, but it's really only understood backwards. Not withstanding the fact, I really look forward. What's the next thing? What's next? What's next? There are a lot of people that love to dwell in the past. Oh my God, you wouldn't believe what this person said to me yesterday. I said, "Great! What are you going to do about it now? What are you going to do about it now? What's next?" Because business will throw an inordinate amount of stumbling blocks at you. It's all about getting that stumbling block, tucking it under your arm, moving past it, what's next?

That was part of my personality. I had so many bullets being fired at me when I'm starting my businesses. I just kept looking, I mean, I almost got to a point at some points to be honest with you where I just became almost just ferociously aggressive in the sense where I was like bring it on. Show me what's next. I'll take it.
Jodi KatzRight, Universe here I am. I'm ready for you.
Barry BeckJust come and get me. What is it next? Who's going to do this to me? When am I gonna ... I'm just ready. I just got to that point where I was just ready for almost anything and ready to fight through it. I think that my team members and my investors saw that in me and they believed in me. I think it's a lot about you and your personality. I mean, there's two things that I look at in any business. I look at the two p's. It's the people and the plan. Most importantly, it's the people. I mean, there was a guy named Howard who started a coffee company. It was the dumbest idea in the world. He was going to sell coffee for $5 a cup? What a terrible idea! The average price of a cup of coffee in America was 50 cents. That was his plan, but it was all about the people. The people made that plan work. Starbucks.
Jodi KatzOkay, so let's talk about meeting Marla. Your Co-Founder at Blue Mercury. How did that happen?
Barry BeckYes, we were very successful. Tower Systems, US Maintenance became very successful. I was living in Washington D.C. at the time. I was a national footprint business, which is what I always wanted for me. I'm always thinking national footprints. We'd got to that place.
Jodi KatzI'd like to remind our listeners, this is not in the beauty industry.
Barry BeckThis is my first company. My first sort of big company out of college. The business was very successful. I don't know that I want to describe financially what it was, but I was very successful.
Jodi KatzI like to call it rolling in it.
Barry BeckYeah, yeah, I was rolling in a sports car. I had a whole life. I was very successful but I wasn't completely satisfied. I wasn't completely satisfied. We were solving problems, basically, we were an outsource maintenance business. We became the Kleenex tissue of that industry. Basically, we had customers like Starbucks and we said, "Geez, what do you do for a living?" "We make coffee." "Okay, great. What about your facility? Your landscaping? Electric? Construction? You're locked out of a store in Alaska. They had no way to deal with that, it was terrible for them. We brought order to chaos. You called 1-800 number and I was a one stop shop for all their problems nationwide.

We invented that. We're financially, we're numerated for that. The problems is, every morning I came in I was dealing with Starbucks. They'd made all their problems nationwide that didn't relate to their core business. We were paid for that, but it was really frustrating. I called my older brother in Philadelphia, I was living in Washington, running the Washington brand. I said, “I'm so dissatisfied. I hate this business. My God.” He says, "No, no, no. You're making a lot of money. What I want you to do tonight is put your bank account statement under your pillow and through osmosis you'll become happy.” You know, wafting, wafting all the money in my bank.

I tried some version of that for a little while, but ultimately I wasn't, I still wasn't happy and said, "Let's sell the company." At that time there was a billion dollar company in Washington D.C., or on its way there to be a billion dollar company, who was buying up, doing a roll up in all the companies in my industry. They were not profitable at the time, but they were rolling up other companies and we were very profitable. Why? Well, because we were bootstrapping entrepreneurs. We had to be. They had just bought a friend of mines company for 18 million dollars. This was like this next number I'd never heard before. I was like, "Wow, that's so much money. Obviously, not a huge amount of money maybe compared to the Mark Zuckerberg's of the world today, but this was a big number and a number I'd never heard before.

I went to a meeting mostly to meet with this guy and I walked into this investment banking presentation in Washington D.C. and I talked to them for a while. There was like 10 people in the room. I think their perception of me was a crazy entrepreneur. I think I might have parked my sports car sideways across three lanes of parking stripes and came up into the meeting. We were very different than them. They were this big company and we were young entrepreneurs. I was still in my 20s, late 20s. Normally, in these type of presentations everyone introduces themselves up front, but I knew this guy so we started, had the whole meeting. At the end of the meeting, there was a gal in the room who I didn't even notice or look at. At the end she said, "Hi," you know, we went around the room. "I'm Marla. I'm the Vice President of Acquisitions. I made all the decisions about which companies we buy. I went to HBS.” I didn't even know what that was. Harvard Business School. I never even considered that. I went to the school of starting companies. I graduated from Cornell University, but then I went right into business. I was blown away. I mean, it was just a lightening bolt.

First of all, and this may sound a little bit small minded. I grew up in Philadelphia. This is a real gross generalization. Everybody had dark hair, and everybody had a Philadelphia accent… And this was a girl that went to Harvard that came from San Francisco Bay area and she was beautiful, and intelligent, and quite, and demure, and strategic. I had just never seen a creature like this before. I think for her part, she just had never ... You know, she grew up in a world where people were like management consultants. They worked at McKenzie and wore blue suits and they were more robotic than me. I was alive or maybe too alive. We just saw each other and we were polar opposites, but there was obviously an attraction. Not a physical attraction at the time, but just a lightening bolt of wow. The truth is what happened after this investment banking presentation, I went back to our board of directors in Philadelphia. We actually met in our beach community. We all met and they said, "What happened? Are we selling our company?"

First of all, and this may sound a little bit small minded. I grew up in Philadelphia. This is a real gross generalization. Everybody had dark hair, and everybody had a Philadelphia accent… And this was a girl that went to Harvard that came from San Francisco Bay area and she was beautiful, and intelligent, and quite, and demure, and strategic. I had just never seen a creature like this before. I think for her part, she just had never ... You know, she grew up in a world where people were like management consultants. They worked at McKenzie and wore blue suits and they were more robotic than me. I was alive or maybe too alive. We just saw each other and we were polar opposites, but there was obviously an attraction. Not a physical attraction at the time, but just a lightening bolt of wow. The truth is what happened after this investment banking presentation, I went back to our board of directors in Philadelphia. We actually met in our beach community. We all met and they said, "What happened? Are we selling our company?"

I said, "I don't know, but I met this girl and I think I'm going to marry her." And I think one of the members on the board looked at me and said, "What kind of guy goes to an investment banking presentation?..." This is like the highest level investment banking presentation. I mean, Washington, at that point, was still a one horse town. It's not what it is, it was a one horse town. It mean, it was a teeny, teeny little town. We probably all should have bought real estate back then. It was a teeny, teeny little town. This was the highest level investment banking presentation going on. …”What kind of guy goes to a meeting of investment banking presentation at this level and meets a girl?” I said, "I don't know, but I did."

I really liked her, was fascinated by her, and the truth is in my mind I went into sort of almost like dating mode. I waited three days, I called her and you know, she called me back. We started to bat around business ideas together. The truth of what happened was I started to feed, I looked at her big public company. We ultimately never sold the business then. Our company, which became US Maintenance became one of the most successful companies in the industry. Fast forward 10 more years we sold the business to a public company M-Core and it’s now part of that Fortune 500 company. We started to meet together, bat around ideas together, and I kept feeding her information, because her public company wasn't performing.

I said, "Look, here's a program you could run to sell insurance to your [inaudible 00:28:33]. Here's a program ..." You know, all these different programs that we were running that they just had no idea what they were doing. We were running because we had to and we were really profitable, which probably wasn't appropriate because I was feeding a competitor information. But it was really anything for me to get to the next meeting to see her. I really liked, you know, it's embarrassing… I wanted to see her. As time went on we started to bat ideas around together and the Internet sort of was really starting to come about. It was around 1999, '98, '99, 2000 time. We started Blue Mercury. That's what it is, we ended up starting a company together. We were not even dating at the time and we started a company together and we started Blue Mercury together.
Jodi KatzHow did you in your brain storming land on Beauty coming from an industry that's completely different for both of you? What about Beauty for you was alluring?
Barry BeckI would say really two things. I would say number one I've always been fascinated with design and style. I think that if I were not at Blue Mercury today I'd probably be in the fashion and beauty business anyway or I'd probably be an agent in the movie industry. Sometimes I wake up and feel like I missed my calling. Everyone tells me I could be Ari Gold, so I don't know, from the TV show Entourage. Really, I think the truth is that I looked at the industry and I saw it was ripe for disrupture. That's the truth.
Jodi KatzIt wasn't about like an obsession around beauty. It's like you see the wide space, you saw the opportunity.
Barry BeckWell, it was really Marla and I together. Marla was an important part. Marla was a very sophisticated beauty shopper at the time. This is very early, but you know, she lived in Boston when she went to Harvard and she used to drive all the way to Chestnut Hill in Boston to go get her Mac lipstick. She was getting facials before they were cool. Between her, my mom and my sister, we all understood that people weren't totally satisfied with their beauty buying journey. The department store sold products by brand from behind glass counters. Sometimes the staff could be snobby or off putting. Then, on the other hand the only other option was the drug stores. They sold more moderate brands and there was no sampling. Really, the department stores and the drug stores left it wide open for us. We saw the need and we rushed in. That's what happened.
Jodi KatzThat's awesome. For our last question I just wanted to mention that in our conversation you told me that you and Marla go out for a walk every night that this is your ritual. I told my husband this. I said, "Yes, they go out for a walk every night at 10 pm, isn't that nice?" He said to me, "10 pm? I'm almost asleep at 10 pm." It makes me wonder, do you have balanced energy as a couple? Is it just like constant energy or is there ever like an exhaustion in running this huge business and working together?
Barry BeckI tell you, it's funny. One of my close friends lives here in New York City. Of course the listeners now know we're doing the podcast. He said, "What's the matter with you guys? You have to walk every night and talk to each other?" I said to my friend, "You know, the Queen of England once said there's no problem that can't be solved on a great walk. You know, on a nice walk." His wife overheard him and said, "Yeah, yeah. How come we don't go for walks? Maybe we should do that."

This is something that we started a long time ago when we started the company. We would go on these walks. We lived in Georgetown. We would walk down to the monuments and this is how we'd sort of blow off steam and at the same time sort of puzzle out the business. We sort of always saw metaphors as we walked around. We were walking once in San Francisco and we thought about the Gap family and how they struggle with their partnership with Levi's and then launched their own brands the same way we launched M61 and Lune+Aster. We started to think about right before the great recession we saw these buildings being built and we thought to ourselves “wow, what happens if these buildings don't get finished? Maybe the recession...” We really, there's a lot going on in these walks but really it's a way to keep the intimacy alive in our relationship. Working together with your spouse doesn't work for a lot of people, but for us I couldn't imagine it any other way. I wouldn't understand it. In other words, I come home from my job and she comes home from her job and we don't have a job in common? That, for me, would seem strange. We walk every night between, you know, it's not always 10pm, 8pm, 10pm. We walk between two and four miles every night. In fact, we've calculated that we've walked half way around the world together. More than halfway around the world together and so one of the things that we’d like to do is finish that circumference together around the world.

You know, and do I have boundless energy? I think I have enough interesting business ideas for five lifetimes. I really, I think that my father once said Barry only has two switches. I'm either really on or I'm off. When I'm on, I'm thinking, I'm running a company, I'm thinking about starting my next company or my next idea. Or I'm going to go collapse tonight in my hotel room and zonk out until I flip back on again and then I'm on.
Jodi KatzThank you for that story and being revealing. My husband and I are definitely going to adopt this walk. Maybe not every night, but it does appeal to me. I think it's a nice tradition.
Barry BeckThank you.
Jodi KatzAnd good luck in finishing that circumference.
Barry BeckThank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.
Jodi KatzYeah, thank you for sharing your wisdom with our listeners. For our listeners, I hope you enjoy this interview with Barry. Please subscribe to our series on iTunes and for updates about the show follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast.
AnnouncerThanks for listening to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.

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