Episode 50: Amanda Thesen, Hair and Makeup Artist
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This week Jodi sits down with makeup artist (her makeup artist!) Amanda Thesen, who tells us how the career of your dreams may be one you never even thought to have. Hear how she went from stage actor to bartending to a surprise turn as a makeup artist, and how failing was a vital part of getting there.

Dan Hodgdon
AnnouncerWelcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty, hosted by Jodi Katz, founder and creative director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi KatzThis is so exciting for me because I'm sitting right next Amanda Thesen, who is a freelance makeup artist and my makeup artist.
Amanda ThesenYay.
Jodi KatzAnd welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty.
Amanda ThesenThank you. I'm so happy to be here.
Jodi KatzI'm so happy that you're here and I want to walk people through how you and I met because I think those sort of origin stories are really interesting and really help humanize our industry. So one day I was driving… I don't know to where… but my phone rang and I have the Bluetooth, I'm not texting and driving.
Amanda ThesenNo talking and driving.
Jodi KatzAnd I picked up the phone and it was a number I didn't know before. You know for some reason I chose to pick up that day and it was this guy Anthony, who was a makeup and hair stylist rep. And he started talking, I started chatting with him and he's like, "You know I just met somebody at Conair, maybe we should go over there and meet with them together."

I'm like, "Okay, let's do it." And he was so good at the hustle, and I was so not. So anyway, he and I did that. Then he decides he's leaving the industry, but he introduced me to you.
Amanda ThesenYes.
Jodi KatzAnd I'm so grateful for that.
Amanda ThesenMe too. It's something so great that came out of that experience for me too.
Jodi KatzAnd then we did Conair jobs together.
Amanda ThesenYes.
Jodi KatzLots of Conair commercials.
Amanda ThesenYep. Which was such a fun experience for me and even at that point ... I mean, that was a few years ago.
Jodi KatzYeah, I mean it could be four years, maybe more.
Amanda ThesenSo, I was still pretty new to sort of freelance life at that point too. So it was really exciting for me to be on a set with a crew like that and doing things like that.
Jodi KatzYeah, it was so awesome.
Amanda ThesenYeah, it was great.
Jodi KatzI mean, it's also very personal for me and I'll tell you why because she is the person I turn to when I need hair and makeup for events. And I can say that after doing this a few times with you, there's nothing more comforting than knowing that my hair and makeup are getting done by someone I trust with everything. Like don't have to worry about it when I'm super nervous.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzI'm super nervous about getting on stage. I'm super nervous about what I'm going to say and not messing it up. And to be in that moment in trusting hands, it's a really incredible feeling.
Amanda ThesenYeah. Well, and I think you sort of hit the nail on the head, and it's something that you know with any special sort of special events, I always try to tell people is that, on big days like that when things are really important, there's nothing that you can do that's right. So it doesn't matter if you're really good at your hair and makeup. You're going to mess it up because you're just so nervous and there's so much else going on. I mean, at least that's how I am. On really important days, I can't do anything right because I'm just so nervous. So I think it's really important to have people around you that you really trust when you need those things.
Jodi KatzYeah, I think it's almost like an investment in peace of mind, because if I had to worry about my hair, which I really I don't have the knack for hair or makeup really, I'm more of a skincare girl. If I were to have to do that to myself and be stressed out about it, and sweating, and worrying about getting to the venue on time, and worrying about what I'm going to say, and when I'm going to say it, and am I going to have a look at my notes. You know all this stuff, I would be really frazzled.
Amanda ThesenYeah. Well, I think, for you in particular, you take risks sometimes too, and you really have become really comfortable in creating real looks. Particularly for things like that, you know?
Jodi KatzYeah.
Amanda ThesenI think the last time I did your hair and makeup, I had my friend Brenna come along and she did your hair and it was a full look.
Jodi KatzYeah.
Amanda ThesenNo one could have done that on themselves. It would have been really hard to get the back your hair and do all that. So it's important for big days.
Jodi KatzYeah. I want stage hair and stage makeup. [crosstalk 00:03:52] When in my life do I get that?
Amanda ThesenIt was amazing. [crosstalk 00:03:54]
Jodi KatzYou are so incredible with both hair and makeup. And for all the artists listening, I think they want to get a sense of do you have to focus on one? Do you have to just stay in one lane or can you really have a career in two lanes? What do you think of yourself as mostly?
Amanda ThesenI'm a makeup artist. It's interesting. When I kind of got into hair and makeup, which was probably about eight years ago, is when I sort of started playing around with it. I met this woman. Her name is Kerry-Lou. She's a makeup artist in New York City. Amazing, she's been in the industry for a really long time, tons of knowledge. She hired me to freelance with her to go to do weddings with her or other jobs, and she really sort of forced me into learning how to do hair. I didn't want to do it. But it does open up the industry for you a little bit as far as jobs go, but at the same time, my focus is always makeup and I'll never take a job that I don't think I can do.

So if I am being required to do hair, I want to know that I can do it, no problem. It is actually simple because sometimes it's like, "Oh, it's just light hair," but it's not. You really do need a dedicated hair stylist for a lot of jobs.
Jodi KatzRight.
Amanda ThesenSo it's a balance within the industry, but I'm definitely a makeup artist.
Jodi KatzWhat made you want to be a makeup artist?
Amanda ThesenIt's interesting. Sometimes I'm envious of people who have these stories where they like, "I've always wanted to do this." And they knew it from when they were little and all that stuff, but it's just not my story. I was definitely interested in it when I was little, like I remember watching my mom do her makeup and things like that. I was wearing blue eyeliner in eighth grade.
Jodi KatzWeren't we all.
Amanda ThesenYes. Oh gosh, frosty. Frosty blue of course. But I went to school for musical theater in Hartford, Connecticut. Again, there I definitely took an interest in makeup because we had to learn how to do stage makeup, but I wanted to perform. I wanted to be an artist just in a different capacity. And when I moved to New York, I pursued theater for a very short time. I had one professional job in Connecticut and then moved to New York. And just the industry ate me alive and what I ended up realizing was just that I didn't love theater enough to pursue it as a career. So I was bartending at a place in New York, and part of our uniform was wearing makeup every day. So I just started to really have fun with it; I feel like you know makeup kind of found me. I didn't find it.

I had this one client in particular. Her name is Jean. She's actually a career coach, which is kind of funny. I mean, I would see her all the time. She would come in and she'd be like, "You're on a double. How do you still look good? Or how do you get your blush to look like that? My skin always eats my ..." or whatever it was, you know? So I just started working with her and I would go to Sephora with her. We would talk about what she wanted to do and then we'd go back to her house and put on the makeup that we just bought for her. And I can't even pinpoint the moment that it happened where I was like, "Hey, I can do this."
But I just got so inspired, and I just started emailing everyone. I just googled and emailed every artist in New York. I must have emailed a hundred. I was actually going through my Gmail the other day and like deleting from the back. And I was just like, "Man, I was hustling." I just emailed everyone that I could and I had some-
Jodi KatzWhat were you asking them in the email?
Amanda ThesenCan I assist you? I'll bring you coffee. I would love to watch you. I'd love to take you out for coffee, lunch, whatever. I just wanted to gain some experience or some insight or some knowledge whatever it was. And then I had Kerry-Lou, who I mentioned before, who was amazing and really took me under her wing and [crosstalk 00:08:29]
Jodi KatzDid she respond to the email?
Amanda ThesenShe did. Yeah. And then I came in. I brought my friend [Ritika 00:08:34] and I did makeup on her in front of Kerry-Lou and she just saw that I had like a natural ability for it.
Jodi KatzIs she the only person to respond to the emails?
Amanda ThesenNo, Lauren Cosenza, as well. She has a blog called Divalicious Blog. She also responded and she was incredible as well and we're still in touch. She's a new mommy now and she's lovely and was so supportive. She got me one of my first professional gigs, which was Cosmo, which is kind of crazy.
Jodi KatzThat's awesome.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzThis is so fascinating because you came after college to be a performer. Right? To get those amazing gigs on Broadway, and didn't feel like you wanted to pursue it further so you, like most actors, had to bartending job, right?
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzAnd it's your bartending job that propelled you into a career as a makeup artist.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzI wonder how many of our bartenders out there are actually budding makeup artists.
Amanda ThesenRight. I find that a lot of actors tend to go into makeup. It's kind of like a natural progression. A, because it's just how our brains work. We're artists. We like to create. But also because you do get training for it, you know? You know how to do makeup and obviously day to day makeup isn't stage makeup, it's not the same thing, but all of the sort of techniques are the same. It's just the levels are different.
Jodi KatzRight.
Amanda ThesenYou know?
Jodi KatzRight, like transforming to a character in Wicked is different than me walking around the street where your eyebrows are like up to here.
Amanda ThesenExactly. But you know I think actors in particular can really understand the transformative power of makeup. I remember going to this workshop with Billy Johnstone. He was in Cats on Broadway before this current Cats was on Broadway. And he took this video, this sped up video of him putting on his makeup and like transforming-
Jodi KatzHe did time lapse like a decade ago, two decades ago?
Amanda ThesenIn the 80s. Yeah. I just remember watching it and just being like, "Oh my god." First of all, that these people do their own makeup. And second of all, just that he literally went from this person that I knew, a teacher, to a character. It makes sense for actors to move into that. We understand that.
Jodi KatzDo you think that your connection to acting helps you when you're doing makeup on performers?
Amanda ThesenYeah. Definitely. I think I certainly understand nerves. So I think that that informs all of my work, because I can sense and feel when people are a little anxious and I know how to respond. But you know I think also just with performers, particularly theater, everything is a performance. So understanding that. And even when I'm doing something that's more like a red carpet on a theater performer, it's still a character that we're creating.
Jodi KatzRight. It's part of the show.
Amanda ThesenYeah. Which is really cool. Yeah.
Jodi KatzBut they need to look like themselves, but the camera facing version.
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzRight. Which is what we all do. I mean, that's for me too. I'm usually in a bun with moisturizer on. Going on stage to give his talk, I want to be a little bit different.
Amanda ThesenAbsolutely.
Jodi KatzIt's like armor.
Amanda ThesenYeah. Yeah. And it kind of gives you a little bit of a protective layer if that makes sense. Because you know for so many of these ... Particularly people who are on Broadway, musical theater performers, it's really super draining, but it gives them a little bit of an armor. You know? They go out, the do eight shows a week, then they come to the stage door, they sign all these things. You want some sort of privacy. Right?
Jodi KatzRight.
Amanda ThesenSo, yeah, I think it allows them to have that as well.
Jodi KatzSo how often are you working? You work with a lot of Broadway people?
Amanda ThesenYeah. I work with Kate Baldwin a lot, She's in Hello Dolly right now. And that has been such an incredible relationship, because I've been working with her for over four years now. Much like my relationship with you, in the beginning it was very ... I just listened to what she wanted and I executed it and that's fine. I'm happy to do that. Always happy to do that. But we've really developed a working relationship and a friendship, she trusts me. She knows that whatever I come up with is going to be great. We can really create looks for her together with her stylist and with her hairstylist to make something that's really fun.
Jodi KatzHow did you get that first gig with her?
Amanda ThesenI got it through a stylist named George Brescia, who I also work with. I met him very randomly. On a headshot shoot and we just kind of hit it off and we've been working together ever since. And he brought me on to work with Kate, and she and I just really hit it off, and the rest is kind of history from there.
Jodi KatzSo let's switch gears a little bit. How are you going spend your time today? What are you going to do today?
Amanda ThesenNext I have a shoot up in Harlem. So I'll be heading up to that. That one should be a pretty quick one. It's with a newer photographer. Well, the photographer is new to me. He's not new. Yeah, and then I'll go home and cuddle my dog and make dinner and go to bed. I'm an early to bed early to rise person.
Jodi KatzOh, you are. What time are you in bed at night?
Amanda ThesenI mean, it depends on like what's going on the next day, but like tomorrow's an early morning, so I'll try to be in bed by 9:00.
Jodi KatzAnd will you be able to fall asleep that early?
Amanda ThesenNo. I'll probably stay up until like 9:30, maybe 10:00.
Jodi KatzTomorrow you have a job?
Amanda ThesenMm-hmm (affirmative).
Jodi KatzAnd it starts really early.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzAnd is that something that aspiring makeup artist needs to be accustomed to?
Amanda ThesenOh yeah. Hours are all over the place. It's something that I still have to adjust to sometimes, especially when I have a late night followed by an early morning. The hard thing about it is that when your job's over, your job's not over. So if I have a long day, I get home, I have to answer emails, I have to post on my social media, I have to wash my brushes, I have to wash my kit, I have to repack my kit for the next day. So I'm in it for at least another hour. You know even after I got home from a job.
Jodi KatzRight, you're just doing that [inaudible 00:15:50]
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzRight.
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzThere's so many makeup artists. We get emails and outreach on social all the time from people looking to work with us. That's just a small segment of the makeup artists in the world. What sort of advice would you give to makeup artists starting out on how to, I guess, stand out from the pack and what do they need to do to further their career?
Amanda ThesenWell, it's such an interesting question because I actually feel like the answer is changing all the time and everyone sort of has their own path. For me, obviously, when I got started, and I think still, always just reach out to people. You can write a hundred emails and you might only get two responses like I did. But who knows where those two responses will take you? So I always say that. It's really boring. And for people just like really in the very, very beginning of their career, just start learning wherever you can. Pick up books. Way Dandy or Kevyn Aucoin. These are things that you should be reading and you should be looking for people whose work inspires you. And then just start working.

I mean, I know when I started, just to really even get comfortable with putting makeup on someone else's face, it was always my friends. I mean if we were going out for a night, they would come over early, I would do their makeup, and then we would go out. It's work but it's not really work. And just even, I mean, certainly learning how to put on makeup is important, how to do makeup is important. But even learning how to make people feel. Like how putting this brush to someone's face makes them feel. Like is that brush too rough? Just things like that. Like what does that product feel like when you put it on someone else's face? You know? Things like that are so important to understand in the very beginning, so that by the time you're working you don't have to think about it anymore.
Jodi KatzRight. So is work in the beginning like unpaid work? What does that mean?
Amanda ThesenSometimes. I mean, I still work unpaid a lot. If I'm doing like test shoots and things like that, or low pay editorials and things like that. That's actually another thing that's really important for new artists to understand… what the industry standard is for each job, because the last thing you want to do is undercut a more senior artist and upset someone.
Jodi KatzSo walk us through that. What does that look like?
Amanda ThesenWell, I think it's a little bit different for everyone, but you kind of want to learn what the baseline is, especially when you're a newer artist. I find that there are so many resources on Facebook of makeup artist groups, and people who will be really open and honest with each other about like this is standard. This is what you should be charging. So I think that's a really good resource for people.
Jodi KatzRight, so there'll be a rate for editorial.
Amanda ThesenRate for editorial, rate for red carpet, rate for a full day video shoot, rate for ecom, lookbook, things like that. Everything is different. Even like weddings and things like that. You know, you want to be charging what you're worth.
Jodi KatzRight. So this is I'm sure challenging for people. So it's nice to know that they can find a group and just ask these direct questions.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzWhen is it worth doing work for free?
Amanda ThesenWhen you feel like it's going to benefit you in some way. I mean, I'm constantly working on my book and trying to make it better and get different things, a full variety of skin tones and beauty work and editorial work. So if a photographer reaches out or if I reach out to a photographer with a shoot that I think is really cool or they think is really cool, and I feel that it's going to fill a hole in my book then, yeah, I'm definitely going to do it. And then you know sometimes there are days where I take jobs that I don't necessarily want to do but I get paid for it. They kind of balance each other out.
Jodi KatzRight, right. I think it's probably the same for our agency work. Like there's projects where we're being hired at the right rate for the right amount of work and the client understands the transactions. And then there's work that we take where it really doesn't feel like the right amount, but it feels so important for us to just try that thing, whatever the thing is, or just start a new relationship, or just to do something we haven't done in a while. And when we make those decisions consciously, like we're aware of it, right? We're deciding to go into something knowing that maybe the money's not great. But that it will pay off a year from now, two years from now.
Amanda ThesenRight. Well, and you know like with test shoots, it always is a little bit of a risk because you don't know how it's going to come out. If you've never worked with a photographer before, you don't know if it's going to benefit you. You haven't seen the model in real life. Maybe she's really good at editorial but she's not good at beauty and you're shooting beauty. Yeah. I mean, there have been a ton of shoots that I've done where I'm just kind of scrapped in at the end.
Jodi KatzRight, and not use them for anything.
Amanda ThesenI think there's a lesson to come out of everything.
Jodi KatzYeah. We've done a lot of work and we continue to work with photographers for non-client work. Test shoots, ultimately, they'll sell them to some Dutch fashion magazine or something.
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzBut what's good about them for the agency is we're meeting different artists, different hairstylists and makeup artists that we typically wouldn't work with. But more importantly, we're getting to see a vision come to life without a client involved. So you know you and I worked on a lot of fresh faces, kind of like a fitnessy girl. Right? We've done a lot of that together, because that's what our clients at that moment wanted and that was what was right for their brand. But it doesn't mean we don't want to do super edgy and crazy and wild and unusual.
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzSo we take those opportunities to work with a photographer, or have whatever concepts in our mind come to life as a way to guide the conversation in the future with clients. Like this is where everyone is now. You know it's like a sitting, it's pretty basic, it's a seamless background, she's posing, but let's try spontaneous or let's try this or let's try that. So we actually get a lot out of it because we're able to show clients who might be very literal. If we're explaining an idea to them, they're not going to get it, but if we can show the idea to them and show the work that we put it into it, they'll start to pick it up. Right?
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzSo we think that's incredibly beneficial and really important for us to keep doing, because if we only did the client work, we're only ever putting a fresh faced girl, with just nice curled lashes, in front of the camera and we need to show more. We need to be ahead of that.
Amanda ThesenYeah, I totally agree. You know every time I do a test, unless it is good clean beauty, which sometimes it is, and that's incredibly important to have because that what's going to get you hired again and again and again and again. But you know if I'm doing a task, I always just trying to like push myself a little bit. In those instances, you just can't be afraid to fail. You know?
Jodi KatzRight.
Amanda ThesenYou just have to ... You know, get the good clean beauty, get the look, get whatever someone's going for, and then on that last look just, I don't know, just go for it, move with whatever you're feeling.
Jodi KatzI think that's the whole point of doing that work is just to try different things.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzIt's not only a good education for you as a makeup artist, but it's really good for the photographer. Like, "Oh, I really wanted to capture that shimmer. I couldn't get it. Why?" And then they can take the time to research it later so that they can actually then do it for a true gig.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzA paying gig.
Amanda ThesenYeah. This has been my team that I work with, Fiona and Eduardo, and I had like such a cool moment with him the other day. We were waiting for the model to get there. And he just like sat down with me and he was like, "You know, we love you and we love the work you do, but I don't want you to be afraid to try things." And like sometimes you are like I love them so much. I want to work with them forever. I love their work. We just get each other. They photograph my work so beautifully. They have a really cute dog and so I want to work with them forever. To me it feels so high pressure. But it's not. They love me, it's fine. But it was nice to get permission to fail.
Jodi KatzYeah, and how beautiful that they can articulate to you in such a kind way.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzWhat they're hoping you can achieve, because that opens the door to conversations. Like when would this be appropriate?
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzI want to try something this is a appropriate for this shoot.
Amanda ThesenIt kind of sounds crazy, but it doesn't always have to be beautiful either.
Jodi KatzRight.
Amanda ThesenAnd I think that that's something that like sometimes I struggle with.
Jodi KatzRight. And I mean this is the whole way of the role on Instagram, right? None of the beauty on Instagram is beautiful.
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzIt's all like totally whack and weird.
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzAnd no one would ever wear it. It's just there for Instagram.
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzBut people get really excited to see it because it is weird or odd or ugly.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzWhere do you think is this hold up for you? Why is creating not like traditionally beautiful and pretty a challenge?
Amanda ThesenI know the answer to this question. For me, when I create something that I look at I'm like, "Wow, that's beautiful." I'm like, "Wow, that looks awful." It doesn't look right to me. You know? Even if it's not supposed to, when it doesn't look right to me, it's really hard for me to imagine it in a photo and photographing the way whoever imagines that it should. Even if it's exactly what they want. I look at it and I'm like, "It's not symmetrical." Just doing funky things like putting a different shape on a lip, or just like things that are more editorial. It's not anything that ... Well, some people would wear it. And that's fine. And that's great. I love that. I just look at it and I'm like, "This looks wrong," and then I try to fix it, and then it's just beauty again. You know what I'm saying? It's something that I know that I need to work on and not like I want to work on, you know finding beauty in things that aren't really traditionally beautiful.
Jodi KatzRight. Because your vision of beauty is different than mine.
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzThis is so personal. I think it has so much to do with how we're raised and the images we saw as a kid, and the impressions advertised in the media had on us when we're like five, six, seven, eight, nine and ten years old.
Amanda ThesenAbsolutely.
Jodi KatzI mean, I can still remember it like the ... I don't know, like the ads ... You remember the circulars that used to come in newspapers, ran as like the Sunday circulars?
Amanda ThesenYes.
Jodi KatzAnd I remember seeing the kids that were my age photographed and, I don't know, like the Bradley's flyer, whatever it was, and that was my vision of what pretty was. Right?
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzOr cool or interesting or compelling. That was formed so young for me. I'm wondering if you can make an adjustment to the way your brain's working around pretty by going back to the theater. Let's take like you know the Wicked example, right, for whatever character, I don't remember her name.
Amanda Thesen[inaudible 00:28:06]
Jodi KatzNo, the one who is like the principal of the school.
Amanda ThesenOh yes.
Jodi KatzSo anyway her eyebrows are [inaudible 00:28:14] Right? So there's nothing pretty about that, right? It's all theater, it's all expression. I feel like that's what's happening on Instagram with these weird stuff.
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi Katzit's just about expression.
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzIt's just about artistry.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzAnd it's not about classic beauty, but you came from that world.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzSo that should be like .. I feel like you know it's in you somewhere to say that strange shape of the lip actually is the character.
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzIf that makes sense.
Amanda ThesenYeah. I don't know why I resist it but I do. It's something I know I need to work on which I think is good too.I think that's sort of ... I recognize it.
Jodi KatzRight. I mean I think realistically also, most work that you're getting hired for, you're probably not being asked to create ugly beauty, right?
Amanda ThesenYes.
Jodi KatzIt's really like beautiful skin and bright eyes, you know a gorgeous lip.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzThe awesome complexion.
Amanda ThesenRight.
Jodi KatzSomething attitudinal but relevant, right?
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzSo that's the muscle you're working most often.
Amanda ThesenYeah. Yeah. Like I said before, what's going to pay the bills again and again and again, is good, clean beauty. If you can do skin, you're good.
Jodi KatzWell, the last question I have for you, Amanda, is tell me what the vision is for your career in five years and beyond. What does that feel like for you?
Amanda ThesenIt's so funny. I feel like sometimes if I say my goals out loud, I'm gonna jinx them.
Jodi KatzOh, wow. Okay. [crosstalk 00:29:51] But I would call that intention.
Amanda ThesenRight. I agree. I was thinking about it and that's what I came up with. But anyway, I'm going to say them out loud anyway.
Jodi KatzYeah. Well, you're not going to say them just out loud, but you're going to push out into the [inaudible 00:30:07] universe.
Amanda ThesenI love that. When I met you I was signed initially and that's something that I want to have again eventually. I want it to be like a really good, right fit. So that's definitely in the five year plan for me. I obviously want to continue to push myself to create things that make me uncomfortable. Because I think that's really important. I want to do more red carpet and things like that, because I love it. I want to work in theater more because I love it. I made the decision last year to start going to LA more, so even though I'm a New Yorker through and through. I want to continue to push myself to do that, because I think it's really important.

Just keep learning and meeting more people and getting more, attracting more, new clients that are a good fit for me, who make me feel valued, and who I bring something to them as well. Yeah, I think that's what it looks like for me. I love New York, so this is home. But, again, I think so much of it is just about getting outside of my comfort zone too, and really pushing myself to do things that maybe I don't want to do but I know that I should try to make myself a better artist.
Jodi KatzRight. I think the universe gives us those opportunities, right, to be uncomfortable.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzI find that I'm faced with the same sort of situation again and again that's so uncomfortable for me. Like whether my body is vibrating or I'm super stressed out or it feels just too new. It will keep putting the same sort of opportunity in front of me again and again until I'm able to work my way through it.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzRight. And then I'm released from that because I've taken advantage of the learning there.
Amanda ThesenYes, absolutely. I think that's like through all facets of our life, bot just work.
Jodi KatzAgreed.
Amanda ThesenYeah.
Jodi KatzWell, Amanda, thank you so much for being here.
Amanda ThesenThank you for having me.
Jodi KatzWe appreciate you sharing your wisdom. I know all the aspiring makeup artists will really probably listen to this episode several times to get all the facts.

For our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview. Please subscribe to our series on iTunes and, for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram at Where Brains Meet Beauty podcast.
AnnouncerThanks for listening to Where Brains Meet Beauty with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.

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