Episode 249: Chris Payne, Chief Executive Officer of Jane Iredale

We are thrilled to be kicking off 2024 with our C-Suite Wisdom theme! On today’s episode, we’re taking a peek behind the curtain of the career journey of Chris Payne, CEO of clean beauty brand Jane Iredale, best known as the skincare makeup.

Chris’s career journey originally saw him following in his father’s footsteps of being a doctor. Though working in medicine wasn’t his path, it was clear that Chris wanted to help people, and his work at Jane Iredale is clearly a perfect fit. In his role as CEO, Chris works to uphold Jane Iredale’s mission of making clean, skin-safe makeup accessible to everyone.

To learn more about Chris’s career journey and hear about the real-life Jane Iredale (who has a fascinating journey, herself!) tune into this episode wherever you get your podcasts.

Dan Hodgdon
I remember my dad saying that if you don't do this for the love of helping people and caring for others, you will hate every day at the job regardless of the money.
Chris Payne
AnnouncerWelcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™ posted by Jodi Katz, founder and creative director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Aleni MackareyHi, Jodi. Great to see you.
Jodi KatzHello, Aleni Good morning.
Aleni MackareyGood morning. So last week, we hosted our second Listen Again Awards event. And on last week's episode, we did a mash up of our listened again, award winners. That was so amazing. What were some of the highlights for you?
Jodi KatzAh, I just love to be in the room with our award recipients, Neil Scibelli. And Ron Robinson, they're so inspiring. They are just such incredible collaborators in our industry. They know everybody, everybody knows them. So it was so fun. As you know, we had a roomful of C suite leaders, influencers, beauty editors, and Neil and Ron, you know, know them all. We all know them. And it's really exciting to see the networking, which is of course, my favorite part. My co hosts for the event was Serena Pitt and she is an influencer. She's also from the bachelor nation. So bachelor fans would really love to know more about Serena. And you can because we actually will be recording with Serena on an upcoming episode. She'll be part of our influencer theme.
Aleni MackareyThat's so great to hear. It was so wonderful to be on site just connecting with everybody. And we are thrilled to be kicking off 2024 with our C-Suite Wisdom theme. On today's episode, we're taking a peek behind the curtain of the career journey of Chris Payne, CEO of clean beauty brands best known as The Skincare Makeup.
Jodi KatzWow, this brand story is so fascinating. Jane is literally the OG of this category. She was the first you know, many decades ago to launch a clean makeup makeup that would take care of your skin. And I love that Chris is now running the brand as CEO. I've known Chris for a really long time. He's been in professional skincare for many years. And we met there so it's very exciting to see him taking the leadership role here.
Aleni MackareyThat's so exciting. So excited to hear more about the this female founded brand as well.
Jodi KatzSo Chris talks about like his experiences in college and helped him on his career journey. He also was a wrestler in high school. So offline, we were talking about that because my son's a wrestler and he talked about this like level of focus and intensity that he has is his job and he recognizes that's not for everybody. And when he said that I laughed and said I'm like yeah, I'm familiar with that focus and intensity.
Aleni MackareyI love the C-Suite Wisdom theme. It's so fascinating to me, it always brings so many learnings to the table that we can use in our day to day Base Beauty and also people from any stage of their career can really take and try to implement in their day to day lives. So let's get to it. Here is episode 249 Chris Payne, CEO of Jane Iredale.
Jodi KatzWelcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™. We are career journey podcast talking about what it's like to define success and reach for it in the beauty and wellness industries. Today, we are starting our new quarter C-Suite Wisdom with Chris Payne, CEO at Jane Iredale. His goal is to lead the brand in all aspects to continue Jane's vision as the original pioneer in clean beauty and to help define this space and educate consumers. Previous experience includes brands you all know and like PCA skin, L'Oreal, Lancome and Ralph Lauren fragrances. I'm excited to dive into the conversation about his career journey. From menswear to makeup on episode 249. Hi, Chris, welcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™.
Chris PayneWell, thank you for having me. And it's my pleasure to be here.
Jodi KatzOkay, Chris, we're gonna go way, way, way back career journey can be long. And a lot of us as little kids are thinking about like, what do I want to be when I grew up? So go back to your 11 year old self? What do you want to be when you grew up?
Chris PayneWhen I was 11? I think I probably there was a bunch of different things. But you know, my dad was a doctor, my great grandfather was a doctor, I think at that age, I probably thought I was going to be a doctor. I mean, I'm I just turned 50. So it's kind of hard to remember that long ago. But that dream lasted until one day of organic chemistry at the University of Michigan. And I decided that that intensity was just not what I was looking for at the time.
Jodi KatzSo if you're thinking back to that 11 year old doctor dream, what would you have been a doctor of? Is there something on your mind? At that point?
Chris PayneI don't think I really would have known. I think I just liked the idea of helping people. I like the idea of how the whole body worked out how everything worked. My dad was a general practitioner, so I probably I think that's what I just thought doctors were, you know, at the time. Although I will say at this point. I probably wouldn't have toughed it out and became a dermatologist. Okay, well, that's a good that's a good field to be.
Jodi KatzThat's a good segue. So actually, what I wanted to share with the fans listening in is that I've known you for quite some time we met when you were at PC skins. Yeah, this feels like seven years ago. Am I right? Somewhere around there. Probably seventh year. And so I've gotten to see, you know, you're in your career. And you know, skincare skin health is really just like such a fun place to me. So in a way, I think you are helping people maybe not exactly like a doctor would but in many similar ways.
Chris PayneYeah, I think that, you know, one of the things that I remember my dad telling me was that if you don't like some people were definitely at that time going into medicine for money. And I think I, some still do. But I remember my dad saying that if you don't do this, for the love of helping people and caring for others, you will hate every day of the job, regardless of the money. And I kind of did take that to heart. And I mean, I definitely just got intimidated by one, five minutes of organic chemistry lecture, I think. But I do find that like, I do take great joy. And I take great pride and I take great, I really look forward to every day, in the sense of how we can help people. I've been very lucky and very fortunate to work for some of the brands that I have, you know, whether it be look, my years at L'Oreal, my first foray into kind of entrepreneurial world at Clarisonic. And then, you know, PCA skin. And now Jane, I've had the privilege to work for brands that I believe, you know, really make a difference in people's lives and a variety of differences. But it really helps you just, it helps you go to work in the morning, when you know that your mate you're technically making a difference in how somebody feels about themselves that day.
Jodi KatzYou know, just watching some of the questions roll in as you're chatting, it's really clear that people are turning to your brand, because they actually want help, right? Like genuinely are asking really simple questions, because it's hard to find the answers these days. There's so much noise and so much confusion in this category. Before we move on to more of your story. I know there is an actual Jane, can you just give me a little bit of her story?
Chris PayneWell, it's if as some people would say if you if you ask me the time, I'll build you a watch. So I can talk about Jane for hours on end because she's such an absolutely wonderful person. Jane is such a again, it just you could talk about Jane for days. She's such a remarkable person who really did change beauty. She had no background in the beauty industry. She had no grand plans of like becoming you know, the next you know Estee Lauder or something like that, or Lena Rubenstein. Jane was she worked on really all aspects of TV and film and brand brought in stage. She worked as a casting director, she worked as she worked in advertising, she worked as a producer. And Jane has also though, beyond just the working part of Jane, she's a maverick, she's somebody who doesn't see an obstacle as a barrier, she sees it as an opportunity to get better or to change. And she was at the time working as a casting director, and she was was a discussion with a like a president of of a modeling agency saying how they this one you can remember this was like the late 80s. This is a this is not recent, this is 40 years ago, but at the time, you know, makeup is big, and it's glamorous. It's the 80s Think of dynasty, you know, you know shows like that. And the President of the casting agent, or the modeling agency was saying how they don't really sign women who have skin issues, because it can be so problematic booking them or you know, getting them on jobs, because at the time, especially just one more technology was it was hard, it was hard to Photoshop and to fix things up, etc. And Jane heard that and just felt that that was wrong. Because it's somebody's skin shouldn't be limiting them from their future. And one of the things that Jane really identified as a barrier to that skin health was the makeup that people were using, because Jane was into wellness and clean living long before it was a buzzword or a catchy, trendy thing. Jane was into what you put into your body and the impact that you make around the world around you. She was into that, you know 40, 50 years ago. And so she felt that when she looked at the makeup, and they get to remember this is late 80s, early 90s When she looked when you looked at the makeup that people were wearing, it was so it was filled with so many things that maybe helped with performance, but it also had a negative impact on the skin. And Jane just felt that you know what? This makeup does not have to be made this way you should be able to make great makeup that's also great for your skin. Again, she wasn't a chemist. She didn't come from marketing. She didn't come from a beauty company but she she just felt and she knew that you could do a better job. And so she found some other people who did do those things. And she created a powder that was still we still sell today called amazing bass to loose powder. And she felt it wasn't the time. You know, it wasn't clean beauty, that wasn't even a word. Maybe mineral makeup was kind of a word. But Jane felt that you should take out things that are clogging pores that are irritants, things that you can be reactive to your skin. And also include ingredients that are good for your skin, either things that are going to help with inflammation, things that are going to help you know protect your skin against free radicals or UV rays. And that's where amazing bass was born. And again, Jane wasn't like this planning to be some big makeup brand. She just wanted to get this in the hands of people like us at the time actors and models you know, using stage makeup, which a lot of heavy ingredients that can interact interrupted interact with the skin. So from there, it went to estheticians and some dermatologist people who worked in that professional space, who were doing laser treatments, chemical peels, etc, which again, late 80s, early 90s A lot of redness, a lot of reaction. There's been a ton of progress since then. But you know you had a week long downtime if you got appeal or a laser treatment. Those professionals found that they could use amazing bass and then some other products that Jane had. And not only did it provide amazing camouflage in terms of that redness, it also provided superior protection against UV rays when your skin is compromised due to that professional treatment. And it also wasn't then irritating the skin further or causing further things. So it was a way to protect the investment to protect the service and to make a happier patient. So this idea of being in the pro channel was really born from this is a union between both being after a procedure product as well as just amazing makeup that if a patient suffered from acne or suffered from rosacea, they could use makeup and not for not interrupting their skin journey. The reason I bring this up is that when you talk about you know medicine and being a doctor you talk about improving people's lives. If you have acne, you have irritable skin you have rosacea sensitivities, etc. You have difficulty wearing makeup, you're in a weird way kind of being discriminated against like it's not it's not equal it doesn't treat everybody the same. And so by giving people this power to like actually use makeup that is a gift that allows so many people to just in lucky with quote you know, kind of being quote normal like where they can just engage in wear makeup when before these kinds of brands like Jane existed, there really wasn't a lot of options and so we help people we that's why we love the professional channel, because we work with professionals who are also helping people have their best life.
Jodi KatzSo Chris, I want to ask our family for the ramp. No, I love it. It was so great for all of our fans listening in if you've used amazing bass and anytime in your life please drop us an emoji because I'm gonna guess it's like 99% of the people.
Chris Payne99% have probably used the Pressed Powder version right pure pure press base which I can say look I worked at Lancome dual finish is an amazing press powder. I've converted many dual finished people to pure press base because it's quite simply the best press powder you will ever use. And I do not say that. I'm not a paid spokesperson. I am an employee, but it is the best powder on Earth.
Jodi KatzOkay, Ashley Tracy some other names are popping in there emojis for me, I figured this is you know the game changer product for people. And I'm fans are actually like adding so many great questions to the question bubble. So please keep adding them in. We'll get to a few of them at the end. Okay, so thank you for telling me about Jane, because there are, you know, plenty brands with a name on the brand and that person doesn't exist or was a figment of someone's imagination.
Chris PayneAnd James, James is still involved. I mean, you know, I take over the day to day but I meet with Jane regularly. She is passionate as passionate today as she was in the beginning about ingredients about the impact on the environment, on the impact of empowering people and giving people their best life like Jane is She's a force of nature. She changed the beauty industry. She's changed the community in which we operate. And she's just a wonderful person.
Jodi KatzWell, I hope to get to meet Jane someday because it's incredible. Like to think about what a mountain she has to climb and telling the story and why it's important when these trends of ingredients and you know, the consumer being educated, we're decades away, right? Yeah. Okay, so let's, let's get back on the Chris train. You knew first year at Michigan that you are not going to be a physician first. Okay, versus say, You swapped out of that class. Did you have a vision for your career at that point? Or were you just sort of like okay, liberal arts? What am I going to do here?
Chris PayneI had no idea I didn't even know like what a career was pretty much. I took classes that I really liked that I found intellectually stimulating I took anthropology, biological anthropology because just this idea of like, where did we come from? And how did things? How does everything work together just I found really, I don't know, it wasn't like studying to me. And, but I didn't know what an anthropologist is, like I didn't, that's not even a job, I didn't think so, I just kept taking those classes, because I really found them enjoyable. And just really interesting. And then at one point, for a hot minute, I thought about, oh, you know, I'll be an anthropologist, but I didn't even know you have to take the GRE and things like that. And that's how that's how it like plugged in. I was. But I worked full time on campus, I paid for all my rent, and all my books, and I paid for all my bills. And so I worked full time, the last few years I was in school, which is like, that's a little like, cute. And I was a five year student, not a four year student, to show you how like, organized it was. But I worked at a store on campus, this one guy owned, and it was like a mini Rei that this guy started. And I was the kind of clothing department manager and then I became the buyer of the clothing area, because I worked 40 hours a week. And I would go to New York on these buying trips. And I would go to Chicago. And I didn't I mean, I didn't, they seemed like ignorance is bliss, or, like I didn't know what I was doing. So that I didn't, it didn't over it didn't overwhelm me that I was in charge of spending millions of dollars at age 22 or whatever. But I love that job. Because retail buying was actually very similar to anthropology in a weird way where anthropology, you don't really know what happened. But you connect a lot of variables and you tell a story. And then other people either point out flaws in your story, or they agree with it. And retail buying this like that. But in the other direction, I don't know what you're going to buy. But I can use a lot of unrelated data and tell a story about what I think you're going to do. And then in turn, marketing is not that different from either of them as well, you don't ever really know what's going to happen until it happens. But you can use a lot of other data points and a lot of other variables to give confidence in what you think is going to happen. And so from being a from this anthropology degree, I took the job at a department store in Minneapolis, Minnesota called Dayton Hudson, Marshall Fields Rest in peace, it's no longer but I was in men's sportswear because that was kind of the background of my what I did. Anthropology did not give me that job. But then I became they moved me into better, better cosmetics. And I became like a merchandise planner. And from there, I switched sides of the table and became an account executive for the fragrance division of L'Oreal selling into the account. This was all still in Minneapolis. And then after a year that L'Oreal moving to New York to do marketing for the domestic arm of Ralph Lauren fragrances, and then that kind of transitioned into all the marketing jobs and things like that. But it all of them had a core thing where it was about curiosity. And it's probably like, trying to figure out the riddle, you know, of what's happening and what I love about what we do and what I love about beauty and what I love about marketing, and you know, now I'm in a different role, but you never really know the answer. You just are constantly trying to refine what you're doing and learn and listen and observe. And, you know, you can't just ask people, What should I make? Because people don't always know that. But you if you if you pay enough attention, you can ask them questions that they can answer. And then your job is to take that those answers and put them together to create something that they want. But your job is not to just you're not a short order cook, where you're just taking an order for a meal. And then making it like that's not our job our job is to is to listen to what they're not saying, listen to what they're saying, like pay attention to what they're doing, and put all that together.
Jodi KatzSo I want to go back to college for a second. Some of my favorite classes were anthropology also, I was actually a government law major, but was very disinterested in my major. By the time junior year rolled around, and I had like a really quirky anthropology teacher and he was so offbeat, but like, I loved it so much. And I think we are anthropologists, like that's something I say to my team all the time. Like, and this is such a fascinating space to like, you know, understand human behaviors and how how these objects, you know, the things that they're using every day, impact their lives. And I love that you were able to get so much retail experience, like how cool is that? And the other thing I want to mention about this is for any parents listening in right now and they're like freaking out that their kids are like, you know, taking five, six, whatever number of years to finish college, it doesn't matter. Chris is a CEO of a great brand. It's gonna work out everything's gonna be okay. Everyone does it in their own time.
Chris PayneYou know, you the thing is you don't have to have a plan. Like the goal. The key is, well, look, I say this with hindsight too, but the goal is about trying your best that whatever it is you do, and always try to take something from what you do, and take things that are heart and are challenging, because that's where you know, you don't grow, you don't get muscles without resistance, you don't get in better shape without running out of breath, like, you need to be stretched, and you need to be pushed, because that's when you learn things. And then take those things to your next job or your next class or your next year, the but you don't have to have planned, but you have to try your best and you have to be you have to push yourself and you have to be able to put yourself in uncomfortable situations. Because that's how you learn. That's how you grow. If everything is easy, you're not going to really change, you're not going to evolve or grow. But I think not having a plan. I'm also very comfortable not having plans, but you have not having a plan means that you open yourself up to things like I remember, somebody told me when he was graduating college, you know, they were kind of making fun of all the pieces 1987 By the way, so it's long, it's not really the same world anymore. But they were kind of making fun of the commencement speaker at Michigan, they were making fun of all the people who were graduating college to be consultants, like management consultants, because like you've never even worked. But now all of a sudden, you're going to be in a job, consulting with other people how to do their job. So the end their advice was the hopefully you get a job out of college that you really don't like. Because what it's going to do is it's going to push you to change, it's going to push you to a learn something you don't want to do. But it's also going to push you to like strive to find something you do like, but again, that uncomfortableness is kind of where we grow in a way. I mean, I'm not and I'm not advocating for people to be miserable or anything like that. But you know, a little bit of stretching and a little bit of pushing, I think can go a long way.
Jodi KatzYeah, and I mean, there's so much pressure to follow the like, typical path, right and ride the same train that everybody else is in the same amount of time. And that's just so unnecessary. Right? There's a lot of ways to learn, there's a lot of ways to have a life adventure in learning. And I'm really glad to see that these rules are loosening up a little bit. And you know, some people are taking gap years or getting jobs like you did, you know, working like basically full time during college and getting a taste for different industries, and not just taking that one controlled, regimented path?
Chris PayneWell on this, to build on that. And this, you know, this might sound somewhat controversial, but I mean, college isn't for everybody. You know, I think that we've kind of there's been this thing for the last 4050 years where you gotta go to college? Well, that's not true. I mean, there's some people, they're better with their hands, maybe some people are better at building things. I mean, that there's tons of other careers or professions. But I think this notion that you have to go to college is a little overdone. And it's it does a disservice to I think a ton of other professions that, like are not maybe on a college track. And I don't know, I just think that it's become a, it's become a like this, like, group thing. Where you got to go to college. Well, that's just not it's just not true.
Jodi KatzI'm totally right there with you. You know, certainly, I think there's a place for a degree and for some people, they, you know, maybe they they'd be first generation and their family and have a college degree. But if you wanted to be like, I don't know, like a video editor, you don't have to go to a four year college to do that. Right. You can go through a program, you can learn it, you can apprentice somewhere and get a job doing it.
Chris PayneI mean, one of the biggest components of our industry, one of the people that we rely on the most are esthetician, you know, and where where would professional skincare and professional beauty be without esthetician it'd be nowhere. And you know that there. I mean, it's just there's this, this, this notion that if you don't go to college, you're you're limiting yourself. This isn't true. It worked for me, it helped me find out what I wanted to do. It helped me by giving me all these things to explore. And that allowed me to, but for some people it could it be a miserable experience and a waste of a ton of money.
Jodi KatzYep, Tamra polish. My timer just told us she went to college, but she ended up going back to school for aesthetics and it's the best thing she's ever done. She loves love's loves what she's chosen to do. I work with a lot of estheticians and dermatologists in my day job at Base Beauty. And I don't think I've ever met an esty who doesn't love being an esty like it's, it's a column there.
Chris PayneEstheticians are some of the most nurturing caregiving like wonderful people. And it's a tactile it's a it's an interaction piece that is like I don't know if I don't know if taking, you know, like communications 101 is going to help you do that.
Jodi KatzYeah. It's also this like really generous world and generous community right when I've been around, you know, STS who, you know, have a legacy and doing a long time there meaning someone who just entered the field, there's like a let me take you under my wing call me any time. You know, there's this real community mindset and they are helping people in a huge way I take my kids to an Asti for acne, and it's like, changed everything for them.
Chris PayneI mean, my, my whatever you want to call it Life partner of the last, you know, many years as an esthetician, you know, so I obviously have, you know, she's the mother of my daughter. So I have great love for estheticians.
Jodi KatzWell, let's talk, let's switch a little bit, we have a few minutes left, just for this portion of the show, I want to talk about defining success, because this is like kind of a really complex idea in my head. So I have like the vision of what I thought success was in my early 20s, which I thought it was money. And now I'm an adult. And I have two kids, I have my own business at this show and other things in my life that I love. And Success for me is added up to like wealth of time, like control over my time. So I'm curious to hear you know, now that you're at the C suite level, right? And you've been leading brands for quite some time. How did you see success? When you first started in beauty? Let's say maybe back at the department store? And how do you define it now for yourself?
Chris PayneYou know, it's a really interesting question. I think that when I was younger success, meant like your title, and success meant your pay your salary. At the same time that also success meant approval by those of the top success. Also, though, at that time for me, and it still does actually is like successful launches, you know, successful rankings, and you know, where your brand ranks or your where your launch ranks. That was, that was a real report card for me. But at the earliest earliest, it was about promotions, titles and money. And then approval from those above, I would probably say, and look that that's a very real part of business. But I think as I've gotten older, the role of the business succeeding equals more success.
Jodi KatzRight, which is the work product of the whole team.
Chris PayneYeah, it's the all the things that go into it and how it does versus like, I think when I was younger success was about me. As you get older, success becomes more about the products, the brands, the teams, the company.
Jodi KatzI love that you mentioned this younger world view of like getting approval and applause from you know, those senior people, we're getting that attention, that positive feedback. I think that's a human nature thing, right? We want we want to do well, and one of the ways that we know we're doing well is if we get the attention of people who've already done it before, totally normal. I remember watching some very like political scenes play out in some light companies in my early 20s. I was like, Oh, my God, like this person is playing the game, I get it. Like, I'm like watching the game unfold right in front of me. And I was like, so not a player. And I had no game, but I was watching it.
Chris PayneThe political stuff is very tough when you're young, because I was the first person in my family to work at a company. So I didn't have a lot of people to really rely on or to gain that insight from. I mean, I was like a social person and whatnot. But I didn't really get the political part of it. And it's real. And it used to drive me crazy, because I felt like I didn't, I was in a game where I didn't know the rules. And I also have a sense of fairness. And I did not I really did not like people who were kind of I think getting accolades or credit when they didn't deserve it drove me crazy. But like you also kind of learn that there's no point in losing your mind over things you can't control.
Jodi KatzRight? So there's this aspect of playing the game we're playing a game was sometimes more important than doing the job. Right. Which I hate it. Yeah, it's irksome. And it's upsetting. And I'm, I don't think it happens in my organization. But I'm confident it happens in plenty of big businesses.
Chris PayneYeah. I mean, it's, it's part of being human. Unfortunately, it's one of the reasons that I've kind of liked the last 15 years or so prefer to working in smaller organizations, because look, it still exists to a degree, but nothing like what it does at a giant corporation.
Jodi KatzSo let's talk about the seduction of success. So this is a topic that's also important to me, right? So, for example, in my business, I have goals and when I like hit that reach one of those goals, and I get a taste of like, Wow, that feels good, then I want more like more goals, more paths to fulfilling that goal. But what that inspires in me is because I'm entrepreneur and entrepreneurial natured so work more, dig in deeper, my brain won't shut down at all. Okay, so what does that mean for me? Oh, well, I don't want to be a workaholic. I'm not a robot like I want to, you know, spend time with my kids or not spend time with my kids and you know, work out and hang out with friends and travel So but there's this real true seduction, I think in the relationship between my ambitions, and the calling of like the work, right? It's zeusie. Me, it's saying, Come on God, send more emails have more ideas. And I have to actually like, like, talk to myself often and say, No, it's okay. I'll get to it tomorrow. So I'm curious, how do you you know, do you hear this seduction? Do you feel it? And how do you or do you not kind of control those urges to keep going?
Chris PayneYou know, I think when I was younger, I think it definitely wasn't. I've always I think had a pretty good balance, you know, just naturally pre work even, you know, I think, but I'm also a little bit obsessive. So I'm proud of him. I've, I've learned through others that I'm fairly intense. I don't always think I know, through enough feedback loops that I am. But when I was younger, I think I was tricked.
Jodi KatzChris, is that the word they choose? Or is there a more colorful word that's chosen for this?
Chris PayneI bet there's a lot of words, you could probably use. I just, I'm a very, I've always been an intense, like, tug can be tunnel visioned at times, and where the outcome sometimes is more important than how you get there. So that's but that's my nature. I mean, I was like a wrestler, I was an intense, you know, person that way. And when you're younger, you don't always understand other people's way of doing things. And some people never do. And I mean, I'm never gonna, I'm never going to not be somewhat intense. And I'm never going to not be somewhat hyper focused and like tunnel vision at times. So I have to try to augment that by being actively aware of feedback, and I'm not going to, I'm never going to be the sensitive person. It's just, it's not in my, it's not totally who I am. But I do try to be better in everything I do. And so I know that I have that feedback. So like, I'm never, I'm never going to be the like, the softest person. But I can try to be softer. You know, maybe I can try to be more compassionate. But I also know that I, it's important for me to surround myself with people that also like to appreciate working how I work. Because it's, you can't just change who you are, because you want to, you have to try to do it, or you have to try to offset things or work with what you have. Everybody has quirks, nobody's perfect, there is no archetype of perfection, or, or like what's the ideal person, boss, employee, you know, etc, is, but you have to kind of know who you are, you have to know what you can and can't do, and then build around it and work around it. But if you're going to, if I, if I if I, I can obsess with myself that like, I know that there are certain people who don't like how I work. But that's going to be true of anybody, everybody is going to have critics, everyone's going to have fans. So at one point, you have to put some of those things aside and just keep moving forward, because the world is going to spin and we're going to go around the sun, and we're going to keep going no matter what. So you might as well do the best that you can. And again, some people I don't, I'm definitely not perfect, but I do try to improve. And I do try to take feedback and get better. There's just certain parts of everyone that is better feedback than others. And everybody has, I think, certain ranges that they can kind of live live within and evolve, like, I'm never going to, I'm always going to be somewhat intense. That is just part of who I am. And if you are a person who doesn't like working with intense people, we're probably not going to be a great match. So but that's like that, I'm not going to quit, I'm not going to I'm not going to put myself on the cross, because I'm an intense person, there's also benefits that come with that. So part of getting older is realizing the importance of true diversity of like all kinds of different ways of working. And then how do we do that together. So like when you brought up the idea of like, you know, the balance, etc. Like I know, and we actually use this, we've used this workplace consultant in the past and kind of Charles who I love to death, one of the things I learned in doing some of that work was that there are certain things that get me excited. And then there's certain things and this is true of everybody that kind of bring you down. If I don't have recharge time, kind of built in, I will become irritable, I will become less creative, I will become so that if I'm always on all the time, it's going to negatively impact my performance and my ability to work with others. So it's not just that I like to have balance. It's like if I don't have it, I will be worse because of it.
Jodi KatzThat's awesome awareness and everybody needs so you know, really understand themselves and be million to accept it right and be able to talk about there's some people who like always want more like they're like an energizer bunny, you know, where they always do what makes them happy is more.
Chris PayneI'm not that way, I need to have a mix of intensity and the mix of total like I like, I'm a bit of a duality, like I like to be around people. But then I also like to be totally like alone. Whereas some people prefer maybe they like being solitary all the time. Some people like being around people all the time. So it's just, there's we're humans, like, there's no, there's no, like, just cookie cutter way of doing any of this.
Jodi KatzI love God. Thank you for sharing that, Chris. This actually wraps up our interview segment. So thank you to Chris, for your honest answers and your wisdom. Okay, last part of our show is fan questions. We have a lot here. All right, so here's a good one. Um, Kathy tells us she's 64 What foundation do you recommend for mature skin with a natural luck?
Chris PayneWell, honestly, you know, we have several options. That could be a great piece there. But what I might recommend, I want to be clear, I'm not a makeup artist. So I what I'm not, we I trust others with these opinions much more. But I would recommend starting off with our smoother, fair, brightening primer, you really want to always use a primer, not only does it give better makeup performance, but it's going to really be a great base to you know, to grip that makeup and to give the best performance. So I'd start with with through the fair brightening primer, I would then actually use hydro pure tinted serum, as a as a first layer. And honestly, depending on what kind of coverage you need, like that would be a wonderful that's a lot of people use that as just their their complexion item. But I would use hypertropia tinted serum, and then finish that with pure press powder. As a as the kind of more of a real foundation product. It's also pure press powder gives that real estate kind of a, it's a natural finish, it really is almost like a second skin. It's not overly matte, it's not overly dewy. You can also use amazing bass loose powder. That's kind of a preference, we just happen to sell more of the pressed powder, but that smoother, fair hydropic tinted serum PurePressed base, and then you might find it pure press the great thing about pure pressed powders that can be both a foundation as well as a concealer, you may want to use one of our other concealers depending on your skin. And depending on what your needs are. You know, that's one of the great things that we like to preach and provide is we have a range of options. So if you want light coverage, if you want medium coverage, you want full coverage, if you want to matte finish a satin finish a dewy finish, we can kind of work on this because we're not trying to we're not trying to tell you how to look. We're just trying to help you and with our professional partners, we're trying to help you bring out your best look.
Jodi KatzWell Giuliana agrees with you on that tinted CRM recommendation. Okay, so this is a good one, can you tell us how to use circle and delete?
Chris PayneCircle delete is used complimentary in terms of you know, there's a little bit of like you can do there are poured concealers, which is what circuit delete is, that's very much of a color correcting product. And so you're able to use those complementary in terms of color correction. Whereas like pure match our latest concealer is a liquid concealer and that's more of a shade matching concealer. So circle delete is going to be a little bit more advanced in terms of usage just due to the texture. And due to the fact that it's a color correction product, it's really going to give you amazing concealing properties versus say liquid or more of a of a skin tone concealer. But my advice and this isn't just because I'm not a makeup artist, I say this for anything that we have, we encourage you either to go see it to see a professional partner, if there's if there's one near you or on our website we have find a professional, you put in your zip code, it'll it'll it'll load with all of our professionals. We are nothing without our professional partners, and they're gonna give you way better advice than I am to be totally honest.
Jodi KatzSo last question that we have time for, for the pure press powder. Is there a tool that provides optimal results for application?
Chris PayneWell, we're going to always recommend what we call The Skincare Makeup system we always believe in starting with the primer for us it's smooth affair, we have a brightening primer, an illuminating primer as well as a mattifying primer. We always preach to start with a primer not only is it just great for your skin, it's going to also help us some skin you know like walk brightening, illuminating or magnifying but it's not only going to help your skin but it's also going to help the makeup perform better. After the smoother, fair, pure press base we generally use the handy brush with downward strokes due to the way that the powder is micro is milled. A downward stroke is going to give a better finish more natural Finish. And then we always recommend to finish with one of our hydration sprays. It's, you can call the setting spray, but really these are hydration sprays. The hydration spray is very important because that really helps get you the finish on the skin, it helps pull that makeup onto the skin so it stays perfectly. It also doesn't give any of that kind of texture it won't get without the spray weather. I mean we always say our spray, but other people don't. People do like to use their other their own sprays. But if you don't use the spray, you could look a little bit textured, that makeup will maybe move a little bit it won't it won't wear as long promised is is by far our number one spray. It's a great all around spray. But we also have like a common lavender spray, we have a hydrating spray, and we have a balanced spray from oiliness, etc. But The Skincare Makeup system which is the smooth affair primer, the pure press base as your foundation and then one of the sprays is really that if you use those three products along with the handy brush, which is going to be for application, if you use if you use those three products, you will have your best skin of your life.
Jodi KatzChris, this is so fun. I'm so glad that we got to reconnect this way. Thank you so much for joining us for our 249th episode. So thank you for helping us start off the new year is really fun. I hope to get to see you in real life again soon.
Chris PayneI will hope to see you as well God is pleasure. And thank you so much for both having me and as well and not having tonight as well.
Jodi KatzAnd for our fans listening and thank you for joining us. If you liked this episode, please rate and review and as always make sure you're following us on your favorite podcast platform and Instagram to stay up to date on upcoming episodes and all the fun we have along the way. Thank you everybody. Thank you.
AnnouncerThanks for listening to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™ with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.

Want to sponsor the pod?

Available On:

Apple Podcasts
Google Podcasts