Episode 238: Kia Ragland, Director of Product Development at Kylie Cosmetics

When Kia Ragland says she has the perfect eye, she’s not kidding. Kia has been tested for nuances in the way her eyes detect color, and it should come as no surprise that the Director of Product Development at Kylie Cosmetics is a shade above the crowd when it comes to spotting the differences in say, Ruby Woo and Dior 999.

Kia tells us she got into the beauty game early on, but it was slightly out of necessity. As a bi-racial woman in a predominantly white area, she learned how to do her own hair and makeup in the 4th grade, and from there an interest grew in learning how the products she was using were created, eventually resulting in Kia becoming a cosmetologist by her senior year of high school. Okay, so when we say interest, we’re clearly under-selling. Kia has ambition for miles and even tells us that during college, she was known to work 2-3 internships at once!

This ambition has clearly served Kia well with stops along her career journey at Stila and SmashBox Cosmetics where she created one of the products she is still proudest of to this day: Punked, a purple-grey lip color that was so well-received it not only sold out, but turned Kia into an award-winning creator.

To hear the whole story of how Kia trusted her gut all the way to winning Fashion Group International’s Rising Star Award and more of how she takes products from concept to market, listen to this episode wherever you get your podcasts!

Dan Hodgdon
It's a very exciting world to be in, you just never get bored.
Kia Ragland
AnnouncerWelcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™ hosted by Jodi Katz, Founder and Creative Director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Aleni MackareyHi Jodi, how are you?
Jodi KatzHello Aleni. Great to see you.
Aleni MackareyYou too. So our guest today really embodies our artistry theme. I think she told you a great story about a test she took for her perfect color.
Jodi KatzYes, I love this episode. This is Kia Ragland. She's the Director of Product Development at Kylie Cosmetics. And she actually took a test to see how well she sees color. And apparently you can have like a super eye for color. And she has one.
Aleni MackareyOh my gosh, that's amazing that skill must come in handy when she's coming up with new color palettes and you know, thinking about what shades will match the best with most customer skin tones?
Jodi KatzOh, yeah, she dives really deep into this in the episode actually. And it's something that I don't know a lot about, because I guess I don't have that, because I told her how hard it is for me to shop for foundation and how stressful it is. But she also talked about her passion for going to concerts and hearing live music. And I know you recently went to some pretty amazing shows.
Aleni MackareyI have. This has been the summer of concerts. I think for a lot of people. There's been a lot of great concerts. But a very, very fun event I just did was with the Klaviyo team. Klaviyo, for anyone who doesn't know, is an agency partner of ours. They're a best in class tool for E-commerce, SMS marketing, and reviews. And they invited me to LA in a box suite at the SoFi Stadium to see the Taylor Swift Eras Tour. And it was actually the finale night of this American leg of the tour, which was such a cool bonding experience with a bunch of other other agency partners and other people who use the platform. So we got to network in the suite and also enjoy this amazing, iconic tour with Taylor Swift.
Jodi KatzThis is a genius idea. I'm so glad you got to participate.
Aleni MackareyAh, it was such a genius idea. There were people there who weren't even Swifties, but like, it's something that we've all been seeing all over social media and it was really a smart networking event.
Jodi KatzOkay, but you also went to see Beyonce this summer.
Aleni MackareyI did. Yes, I am. Beyonce is like to me, she's just incredible. I absolutely love Beyonce and her performance. That was absolutely spectacular. Seeing all the visuals and being in person. It was amazing. How about you, any summer concerts for you?
Jodi KatzWell, I just went to a K-Pop show with my daughter and her friends.
Aleni MackareyOh, that's amazing.
Jodi KatzYeah, it was really fun. The girls loved it. And it was really fun to be in the room with so many super fans.
Aleni MackareyThat's awesome. Such a great summer activity. Well, let's get to the show here. This is Episode 238, Kia Ragland.
Jodi KatzWelcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™. We are a career journey podcast talking about what it's like to define success and reach for it in the beauty and wellness industries. Today we continue our artistry and influencing theme with Kia Ragland, Director of Product Development and Kylie Cosmetics. As a bi-racial woman, she felt that she was not represented in the beauty industry. And this would allow her to be behind products that were not only meant for her skin and complexion, but for other women as well. She has also worked with Stila and Smashbox Cosmetics, all notable names in your makeup bag. I'm excited to get into this conversation about her career journey from makeup artists to product development on Episode 238. Hi Kia, welcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™.
Kia RaglandThank you. Thanks for having me.
Jodi KatzI'm so excited about this. And I'm gonna go like totally off script for a second because I was setting up for this interview and I'm looking at my desk and it is such a mess. So I'm curious, do you have like a zero inbox like desk organization kind of system? Or do you let the papers pile up?
Kia RaglandOh, no, we have so many moving pieces of looking at product constantly. And we have to keep it organized. So there’s, there's a full system in place even down to the labeling of every submission that comes in and how we organize all of it so that everybody can reference it especially because we travel as well for going to labs to work on formulations. So it's great to have people to be able to pick up exactly where you're at and know where everything is. So I'd say we can't afford to be unorganized.
Jodi KatzSo are you at your desk right now, your work desk?
Kia RaglandNo, I'm not. I actually made it there were space. The workspace I feel like would have caused me disruptions probably doing a live.
Jodi KatzSo if I walked up to your workspace, your desk, it's not going to have like piles of books and packages that arrived and many glasses of water that are emptied. It's going to be totally tidy.
Kia RaglandTotally tidy. Maybe a bunch of packages until like, the team, thank goodness, helps to open all the packages because we get way too many, but other than that it's pretty organized and clean and an interesting fact, I've never really been that into pink and I think now being at Kylie it's like, the most pink I've ever owned in my life. So all my supplies on my desk are pink and it took time to get used to.
Jodi KatzOkay, I have a homework project for the end of the work day after my recordings. I really want to tidy up the space because it feels better to have a tidy space.
Kia RaglandDefinitely. Okay, I will be clear, clear minded when she starts.
Jodi KatzAlright. And I love, I usually I have like all the mail pile up, and then I go through it, you know, one day a week. And when I do that, it's so nice, right? The packages are gone, the piles of paper are gone. All the cords are in the right place. And it makes me feel so at ease. Yeah, I for sure agree. Well, let's go way, way, way back. We're career journey show. And I think a lot of us, especially our ambitious friends, we start daydreaming about what our career is going to be like when we're kids. So go back to your 11 year old self, what do you want to be when he grew up?
Kia RaglandBut it was I don't know why I thought I wanted to be a marine biologist. I just always was really into science. I don't know why I thought marine biologist. I just thought it sounded cool. That's definitely not what I wanted to be I learned that anything to do with science, I've always been very interested in science and math. So I think that kind of stemmed from me just filling like science and math for interest of mine. And then when I found out that I could combine all of them in beauty as like this is it.
Jodi KatzSo when you went off to college, were you setting out to study marine biology?
Kia RaglandNot at all, I think that was just like a child dream that I quickly grew out of and just sounded cool for a little bit. I learned quickly though, I would say around fourth grade, I started learning how to do my own hair and YouTube and Tiktok and Instagram, you know, they're not, they weren't even some of them weren't even around, right. But I had really no source to really figure out how to do my hair, how to do my makeup for somebody that's biracial. And the town I grew up in wasn't very diverse. And so anytime I saw somebody had my sense of hair, or anywhere I could find any of these sources I always liked. What did you put in your hair? How did you your makeup? What products are you using, and it just made me start kind of experimenting at a young age and really finding a passion for it. So the time I got to high school, I found out there was an ROP program and started becoming a cosmetologist, my senior year of high school, and then a few months after having my high school diploma and my cosmetology license. And then I went to, I would say, like a certified kind of training to become a makeup artist. And then found out that there was something such as product development. And I could go to fit, um, the Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising, and study in terms of working in the beauty industry. And it just felt like everything just started kind of coming into place. And I got my Associates of Arts in the beauty industry of merchandising, marketing, and then the Bachelors of Science in Business Management and then just kept doing a bunch of internships along the way. And the more and more I got into the industry, the more I realized how much I loved it and how much I just absolutely loved product development. And it just felt like an aha moment like this is where I'm supposed to be.
Jodi KatzSo many of our guests during this artistry theme have actually, in their high school years started to get their cosmetology license. And I think that's so cool. Because I mean, a lot of us in high school like we really are rudderless, or you know, clueless, and I love hearing from so many talented artists, that they pursued it so early on, right? They didn't flounder in, you know, I don't know automotive industries, or I don't whatever, any industries, and then find their way like they, it was in their heart. And there were people around them that were saying, like, go for it, do it. And they were able to make that happen. And I love hearing that. And you know, by the way we consider product development artistry here. So I love that you started with your cosmetology license. That's so cool. So let's talk about product development. Because we actually haven't had a lot of guests on our show in 238 episodes that have been product developers, I'm like only two others come to mind. And I think for a lot of people in our industry, especially people starting out, they really don't understand this facet of the business, you know, everyone thinks of marketing or sales or, you know, supply chain. But can you just give us a little background on like, what actually you're doing every day in your job?
Kia RaglandI mean, how much time do we have? There's so much the product developers do, where we take everything from concept to market with all the cross functional teams. And we work very hand in hand with a wide range of teams that all have their own expertise and specialties as well. But for us specifically, we really work on creating the product, coming up with the ideas and then kicking it off and starting to work with manufacturers to really start formulating those products. And then at times, we'll be in office, and we'll be evaluating the submissions that come through the mail of the formula, the sheets, and we create everything from the scent, the texture, the color, all of that with the manufacturers. And then when we get to the place of being within the timeline of either lab or first production, depending on timing, we'll then go to the lab or wherever we're creating that formula. And we'll work with them to really get it to the place of where we feel its approval to start launching it and for them to run it in mass production. And we travel anywhere from Asia, Italy, Canada and New York to go and work at these manufacturers in the lab.
Jodi KatzSo let's talk about color. Right, this is a cosmetics product development role. So color is a significant part of it, you've talked about having the perfect color eye, what does that mean?
Kia RaglandSo I've been tested for how you see color. And it's this interesting test where they give you three to four different ranges of colors. And it starts, let's say, from a green to one side to a red on the other side, and then there's little tiny nuances of each shade kind of of creating a gradation from one to the other. And you have to be able to put it in order. And you do that for the few ranges that there are. And when you get 100% match, you're considered to have a perfect color I so that's something that I feel was like an interesting fact that I took the test and I found out that perfect color i and it does take time, like eventually, you can see the difference. Most people I would say you can see the difference of a color looks off. But it's getting to that specialty of noticing like the slight little tiniest nuances. So she really work on complexion, items of concealer and foundation of really getting those right to say you know, there needs a little bit more red or need a little bit more yellow, or maybe a little more dirtiness, a little bit more black. And it really helps you to hone in on those skills and be quicker to make the adjustments to get to your, your key shade. That's your standard.
Jodi KatzSo when did you get tested? Was this when you were in school?
Kia RaglandNo, it was actually outside of school because I started picking up really quickly on seeing color and being in product development. And my first job at stele, I was doing product development, packaging, and then I was helping QA sometimes. And I started noticing that color was coming really easy for me I was able to see it, I was able to adjust it. So then I kept people kept telling me like Wow, your color is so good. Your color is so good. So when I found out there was a test for it, I just went took it myself because I was just out of curiosity. I figured mice will rise will be able to put some type of like certificate to it.
Jodi KatzI'm thinking about my experiences like being on press, have you ever gone on press for it, packaging?
Kia RaglandLike packaging? Yes, I did before when I was in my early.
Jodi KatzSo that’s when having a perfect color I am sure came in to be very valuable. Right? Evaluating, wait, this is supposed to be a purpley blue and a yellow blue. And you know, we have to change the mixing colors. And I would imagine you're also like a retouchers best friend when things just aren't quite right, you can probably actually really pinpoint how to get to the right place. This is very challenging for most people. It's very cool that you have this talent.
Kia RaglandThank you. I would say sometimes we're retouchers best friend and sometimes not so much because they're like, you’re killing me trying to get here with only, you know, RGB or CMYK depending on what you're working on.
Jodi KatzSo product development is your, you're responsible for I like to call the goop. I don't know is that like an industry term? What do you call the stuff inside the jar, the tomb?
Kia RaglandFor me? The formula.
Jodi KatzOh, you're responsible for the formula, you mentioned that it starts with concept. So how concrete or abstract does a concept need to be that you start working on it is just like, I like the smell of the blue sky? Like that's so abstract, like, you know, where does it actually start when you're formulating a concept?
Kia RaglandI would say it's a wide range. And it also kind of depends on where you're at. So if you're kind of in a big corporation, a lot of times, marketing will find maybe like, we're somewhere in the calendar that needs to be filled or things something that they feel like, you know, this is something the brand really needs or this thing it's going to be coming that we're predicting in the trends, and we need to figure out how to make it. And then as developers, we'll go and we'll work on what we feel what would be best to be able to fill that gap. Or if we go to a trade show, we might see something that inspires us for like a new raw material or a new formula base or something like that. And then it might spark a new idea for us to say, you know, this something we should create, and then we'll kick off a product brief on the key aesthetics we're looking for and what we want it to deliver. And even like our claims wish list, let's say like we really want this to be long wearing or we want this to be sweat proof or sweat resistant or things like that along the way. And you kind of at least kick that off in the beginning to say like these are these are the must haves, these are the ones and these are really the key aesthetics we're looking for.
Jodi KatzSo this is artistry but it's also science. Right? Right. And you talked about wanting to be you know, a biologist, marine biologists early on so you're kind of doing that science job. It's just a obviously different medium and in studying animals but there's so much science at play here right?
Kia RaglandThere's a lot of science at play. I'm pet lovers are not scientists, at least most. Most aren't there are some people that start in research and development and then transfer into product development. But I would say overall pack scalpers majority of them don't have science degrees. It's more of just learning the raw materials and the pigments and the pearls along the way and working directly with the chemists and manufacturers to create it and learning really high speak the language understanding how it manipulates the formula, and how to really work with it and be able to speak I would say you have to speak multiple ways to do to be able to speak to the brand And then how to deliver it more to the consumer and to speak more scientific and work with the scientist to be able to create it.
Jodi KatzOkay, so let's talk about what I like to call facing the seduction of success. This is a theme in the show quite often, we're in an industry that's so fun. We're surrounded by ambitious people, but there's only a certain number of hours in the day, you know, even if our ambitions are much greater than 24 hours a day, as you create so much success for yourself in this industry. How do you like press the pause button? Or do you as you're pursuing your dreams?
Kia RaglandI don't think I ever press the pause button. I tend to so passionate in general, about beauty and industry and what I do that I'm constantly trying to think of new new things to work on new side projects. I mean, even me being here on this podcast with you, I'm literally here during my lunch break right on my regular job. So it's, I'm constantly going and sometimes I'll even have thoughts at night when I'm sleeping. And I'll, I'll kind of like make a mental note of it if like this makes something these cool for me to try or to look into for an idea at work or speak to the team about and I have such an amazing team that it's great to be able to even speak to them about getting excited over like, Maybe we should try this. Or maybe we should do that. Remember that one formula? Like what if we twist it that way or this way? And it's it's a very exciting, I would say role to be in that you just never get bored.
Jodi KatzSo let's talk about what's not boring you right now. So what are the things that are inspiring, you are kind of, you know, waking you up in an excited way in the middle of the night that you're really interested in pursuing?
Kia RaglandI would say it's a full range, it can it's anything from either trying to solve a problem, like let's say, for instance, I my eyebrows, right? Like I I have such full brows, but they're really sparse. So every morning when I'm doing my makeup, I feel like my brows are like my biggest pain point. So I might say, what if we create this one specific type of pipe that makes that super easy for an easier way to apply grace for everybody. And I feel like that's probably how stencils were created. I so I'm gonna get myself to use a stencil. I feel like that looks too personally for me to drawn on for helping my browser. But I would say something like that is really solving a problem or going and seeing new formulations or presentations, or raw materials that are coming out in terms of innovation in this industry, and being inspired by a raw material that now has a new benefit to it. And wonder like how can I get this to work in my product? Is that a cooling sensation? Is it a heating sensation? Is it like a new type of polymer that helps with like a film forming and a binding so that it can keep a shine to last longer? And then I would think like wow, what would I really want to last longer in a high shine? Like what type of lip product? Would I put that in? Or can we somehow put that in a face product? Would you want that part of your face to shine that much like a highlighter and things like that are trying to think outside the box to be first to market and created differently than other brands do?
Jodi KatzSo where do you seek out inspiration? Because you know, we are talking about artistry, you know, seeking out inspiration from you know, fine art music like this is probably something that feels a lot of people in your fills up the tank for a lot of people in your industry. What do you look to for inspiration outside of beauty?
Kia RaglandDefinitely fashion. I feel like fashion is a big one food is a big one to look at ingredients, I would say food for ingredients, fashion for maybe textures and colors, even watching shows like euphoria, which blew everything up right in terms of the looks that were being created. So I think being inspired by anything from TV, movies, fashion, traveling, I love to travel. And so even when you're traveling might see something in another country or another culture doing something that might just inspire you for a product.
Jodi KatzSo how much of your time do you spend for work using social media? Is social media a place that is good for your brain and this type of job? Or does it kind of clutter your brain?
Kia RaglandI would say I'm a little different than most I'm not the best with social media, I have to admit, like, for me, I try to I try to think more outside the box and maybe reference what's happening, what's trending but not have that viewer, subconsciously you're creating it or doing it yourself. So I do try my best to be more innovative outside of social media and then come there is like a checkpoint, or at least stay relevant to understand what people are liking, you know, what are the major tick tock trends that maybe you can help solve a problem for, you know, have a better way of producing it. And being the fact that we also work a year in advance, we have to think so forward thinking that it's hard to react in real time. So we have to really be forward thinking and what's happening. So if it's happening, you know, most of the time either we were already working on it, or it's something that we're like, what can we hurry up and work on and adjust to hit this wall still a trend because starting from scratch a year later, we will no longer be relevant for that trend.
Jodi KatzThat's a lot of pressure right to be inventing today. What's gonna be hot tomorrow. Does that keep you up at night?
Kia RaglandIt doesn't. I feel like that's the exciting part of the job. I'd like there's a lot of parts of the job that I really don't enjoy. much can I do all of this to do these things that are more creative and fun and innovative?
Jodi KatzOkay, so what are the things? What are the parts of the job that like, are not probably what people are thinking of when they think of product about what are those kinds of like tasks that just have to be done as part of the role?
Kia RaglandOh, I would say, one of the most challenging ones, you might find an amazing product, and you're like, we have to have this great new launch, immediately, you start working on it, you're like, This is gonna be so great, you have such big visions for it, mixing, you know, there's a new regulation that comes out that now this one specific raw material that really makes the formula is now not going to be compliant in Europe by the time you launch it. And you're if you're a global brand, you're like, Oh, great. Well, now how do I reformulate this or justice product in a way that it's still amazing. But now I can make it globally compliant again. And so that really impacts sometimes the texture, the color, the finish of the product. And there's, you have to learn that you can't really get to married to some of these things. And it's like, you see them as like your children, but then you have to realize, like, okay, it's not going to be perfect, things are going to happen, I can't get too attached, because there's, it's a ever evolving space. And so a lot of the times when something launches, it might have been reformulated, you know, two to three times, even in certain moments. And so then people come in, and they're like, Oh, well, I wish this texture felt better. I wish this was whatever, and you're like, oh, my gosh, if you only knew how much we did to try to get there, and you get to that place, there's so much more that goes on in the background of having to be globally compliant, having to make sure that you're on trend, and trying to really still differentiate yourself and stay within your own brand identity.
Jodi KatzSo let's talk about these product children in your whole career, like what are the three products that you're just so happy and so proud to be a part of bringing to life? That's a hard one. One of the pick favorites.
Kia RaglandYes. So one of them, I have to say is probably the kickoff to my career in my start, that really helped to pivot how I view things in the risks that I took and helping I think need to have a little bit more of credibility, I guess it when I was at Smashbox. And I started with a sheet called Punked and it, it was a sheet lineup of 35 lipsticks. And in it was like, we have to have this like purple gray. And I had one of the marketing girls really supporting me on it. But like artistry Radioss that usually does is usually really supportive on on colors like that they're like, I don't know about this shade. I don't know about these other things. And they're like, I just don't know this, this, I don't know about this gray. So they, I really pushed for it, I was like oh my gosh, I'm going to be fired. If this doesn't work. And they put it into your three put in the bottom, it's like a really nice deep gray with a purple undertone. And at that time, purples were a little bit more Gray's, a little bit more white, or blue. And they didn't really have that purple undertone, which makes it a little bit more universal. And it was crazy to say for gray. But it did so well that they had to stop production, to have the other shades to produce more of that shade. And it was sold out everywhere support came to us and asked for a franchise of just that shade. So then we're doing an eyeshadow palette. We're doing lip liners, liquid lipsticks, everything. And it was all inspired off of literally a shade. And so anything like an innovative formula or anything like that, I mean, the formula is amazing that it was put in, but it was just off of really having like a gut instinct or a love for this one specific sheet that turned into something so much bigger. And not one sheet. I helped that and a couple other products. I was nominated by Estee Lauder to be a bright fashion Group International Rising Star Award. And that's like somebody that makes an impact in their first five years of their career. And I was nominated with that as one of the products and actually won the award, which was so great. And so I think that's one of I would say that's one of my like, close to the heart ones that was like a really first experience that I'll never forget of just like a shade turning into something so much bigger. Another one I would say is I really love the Always On cream eyeshadow from Smashbox. That eyeshadow is great. You can use it. It's literally been tested for everywhere. I was like how do you find a multi use product, especially during COVID? How do you find a multi use product, and it'd be on budget that performs will last long, has a full range of shades and does everything you want it to do. And this one product you can apply on your browser. So you can use this eyeliner as eyeshadows blush, you can use it for so many things. It's like your one product on the go. So that's an exciting one. And then sadly, there's one that I loved so much and was so great that was never launched. And I am still tested that people still to this day will reach out to me and say kibarim That one product that people have tried in the office, they're like I loved it. And a woman came up to me and she was telling me how her purse was stolen. And she was like put that sample within the purse like Do you have another one and I can't even see what it is. And it's it's hard. Maybe one day, maybe one day in the future, it will come back. But it was such an amazing product. I wish, I wish it would have launched and it was so close.
Jodi KatzSo I think it's another example right, of it not always happening, right? And you just put it back into the universe, and maybe the universe will bring it back to you, and it will get to see the light of day. This, this color Punked. Is it still sold today?
Kia RaglandNo, it's not sold any longer today. But yeah, it was a really cool shade. You can still google it and still see like what it looks like. And you never know, maybe maybe it could be rematched, one day or another fan will match it or we will, who knows. But it was it was really cool, really cool story and experience.
Jodi KatzSo my last question for you in this part of this show is going to be probably what you get asked a lot by young people entering the industry, like how do they get a job like yours? Right? This seems like the coolest thing, right? You're at the intersection of like, where the science and the arts happening, that you're connecting with it probably every single department, every organization, you get to tap into cool trends that are permeating and fashion and music. So this is sounds like the coolest job. What is your advice to people who are seeking out a path similar to yours?
Kia RaglandI would say, one, it takes a lot of passion and a lot of hard work. But the biggest tip I would say is internships, I would say going in interning is really big, because everybody can use an extra hand and use help. And it's like a great trial. I feel like for both of you, because the brand can see how well you perform and how you work and how you pick up on what you're what you're learning in that environment. And then you can really gain experience from that and exposure from it. And it's I think I did I want to say sometimes two to three internships at a time while I was in college. I know I was I told you I never I never paused. So I was doing so many internships at the same time, just to be able to get that exposure and to get those trials. And that's my advice I give to anybody who might present anywhere, speak anywhere. I always say to do internships and to really show your worth and show that next level and in differentiate yourself.
Jodi KatzI love it. This is amazing. That wraps up our interview segment. Thank you Kia for your honest answers.
Kia RaglandThank you.
Jodi KatzSo our last part of the show of fan questions. Oh my God, there's so many here. I'm going to pick three. And we'll see if we have time for more. Oh, this is such a good question. Back to your, the way you see, your eye represent your, the way your eyes represent color or understand color. So someone's asking why do our eyes see it differently? Like why am I not? Why do I not see what you see?
Kia RaglandThat is a good question. I think it's one just off of just your I would say the way you see color in general, I feel like I even working with interns, it just naturally comes more to some than others. I know people that wear glasses and contacts that can still see color perfectly. So I don't really know if it's how great your eye vision is or what it is, I know that most people have three icons. And those cones help you to see color. And I know that they even say there's actually like a rare genetics where only women can possibly have a fourth cone to help you see colors that others don't. And some people swear I have that I don't know, I have never tested it. And I'm definitely not claiming that. I think it would be interesting to find out but they say someone will actually have a fourth cone. And that helps even to see colors that others can't. So I would say one is just naturally what colors you see. And then two, it's over time taking, like that time to experience and to see and to grow and understand what you're seeing and why. So if you see two shades look differently, it's understanding what's making it look differently, so that you can start honing in on that, like if you're looking at a blue or better example, let's say you're looking at a red, there's yellow reds, and there's blue reds. And if you see that something looks like a deeper red, for instance, that could be either a cooler red, or that can be a warmer red, or even a deeper red, which means it can have more black in it more blue in it or more yellow in it. And so it's understanding kind of what that means what you're seeing, and then having that experience to move forward, which helps you kind of pick it up and capture it faster.
Jodi KatzMaybe this is why it's so hard for someone like me to like pick out foundation and concealer shades. It's like so intense, right? It's almost like shopping for bras that fit well. Like it's like makes me sweat. Right? Maybe because I don't see the yellow and the this and the that like I just don't I know it's like maybe it doesn't maybe doesn't look right. Or maybe it does or you know, it's just so hard. It's so stressful.
Kia RaglandYou're asking you how do you figure out which one is the best?
Jodi KatzWell, I guess because I, I probably can't see color the way you can so I can't differentiate as much right? So I'm trying to figure out as a customer what shade is right for me and to self evaluate when I can't see the complexities of these colors that you know someone in your positions made. Right? I just see all these shades and maybe like a handful of them could work but I don't know enough about the difference between them to know to really pinpoint what's right for me.
Kia RaglandAll right. Oh, so I would say that your undertone plays a big role in that. So if you're if you're more of a warmer undertone cooler undertone, you kind of want to lean towards those shades because they complement you more. Overall, I would say have fun, right, because it's makeup. So overall, I would say other than your foundation don't have too much more of your foundation, you want to match that. But when it comes to like eyeshadows, and lipsticks and things like that, you do want to have more fun, I would say for your artistry. But in general, you do want to, I would say choose ones. If you're more on the yellow side, you do want to choose more warmer shades. And if you're on the cooler side, you want to choose like a little mini ones that are cool, but cooler, a little bit more gray with more blue, maybe a little bit more dirty. And those really will complement you better and not wash you out too much. But you never go wrong going more like on the neutral side if you're unsure.
Jodi KatzHere's a really interesting question from Gabby, what is your favorite thing about your career?
Kia RaglandI would say the creativity, I love the creativity behind it. And I think being a, you know, a woman of color, I never really found a product that I was like this is exactly my shade. And this is I've always had to mix and match. And so even not just the shape, or even the formulations like some you know, certain certain cultures have uneven pigmentation of lips and things like that. So I love being able to have a voice and have an impact on products that are being made and put into this industry that can really help a wide range of everybody every ethnicity, every gender and really create products for everybody.
Jodi KatzDeb has a really good question, what is part of your daily routine that we might not expect?
Kia RaglandOh I, that you wouldn't expect maybe I'm obsessed with like body butters and body oils. I just like, soak myself in it to the point of eating, like I'm probably getting a little carried away. I get in my car and I'm like, maybe I put too much today when I see it on the leather. That's my, that's my biggest thing. I just love after showering, just covering myself in body oils and body butters. I don't know if it was good or bad thing when we're walking around shining, glowing, but it makes me feel good.
Jodi KatzThat's awesome. And I think you should keep it up and your your clothes will survive this. Yes. Okay, I think we have time for one more question. Oh, this is such a good one. So the first part of the question is how how else do you find artists that inspire you? But the second part is what is your Explore page like?
Kia RaglandProbably like somebody that has like, ADD and ADHD. It's all over the place. It has everything on there from, I would say, workouts, doing athletic sports, travel, food, fashion, different makeup artists, makeup looks, recipes for different types of meals. Like I feel like there's everything on there that you could possibly think of? I don't, yeah, it's a little crazy looking realistically. Artists.
Jodi KatzI love this question. So thank you. This is actually an amazing bunch of questions. So fans, kudos to you for thinking so sharply. Kia, I want to say thank you. This is so amazing. You were our 238th episode.
Kia RaglandThank you so much. Thank you for having me. This was great. Yeah. I'm glad that you made it so comfortable because I've been really nervous.
Jodi KatzWell, I'm glad that you joined us. I have a feeling that you might have a lot of people jumping into your LinkedIn to ask more questions about your career. It sounds fascinating and so proud of you for you know, going after your ambitions and pursuing them and finding all the angles to get what you want, like multiple internships at one time. This is this is a new one. I haven't heard that one before. This is awesome. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
Kia RaglandThank you so much for having me. Congrats on your podcast. I look forward to continue listening.
Jodi KatzThank you. And thank you so much to our fans for joining us. If you'd liked this episode, please rate and review. As always, make sure you're following us on your favorite podcast platform and Instagram to stay up to date on upcoming episodes and all the fun we have along the way. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. Bye.
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