Both being in the hair industry, it was inevitable that Chris Appleton, Celebrity Hairstylist and Global Creative Director of Color Wow, and Gail Federici, CEO of Federici Brands, would eventually cross paths. With his creativity/knowledge about products and her marketing vision/innovative thinking, there is no stopping them. Together they have created professional, quality products that have become the solution to many everyday hair care troubles.
In this episode of WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™, we discuss how they became power partners, their rise to the top, and how important it is to stay present, grounded, and grateful despite being in the limelight.
|Jodi Katz||Hello, friends of Where Brains Meet Beauty podcast. Thank you for tuning in on a Monday at noon to join me here. I’m very excited for today’s show. I have to tell you, though, I’m crazy, crazy nervous. I have tingles in my hands and my arms, and I just didn’t know what to do with myself the minutes, a few minutes before I was about to tune in. I don’t usually get this nervous before a podcast recording. It’s only really happened one time like this before where my whole body feels like the blood is leaving my brain. But I want to tell you a little bit… and you know who you are, you’ll understand why I’m crazy nervous.
But I’m going to have Esperanza come in. Hi, Esperanza!
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Hi, Jodi. I am also really nervous.|
|Jodi Katz||My body feels like there’s tingles all over my arms, and I’m not dizzy, but I feel a little lightheaded.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Yeah. No, totally. That’s definitely how I feel too. I mean, we have really exciting guests today, so it’s warranted.|
|Jodi Katz||And it’s a Monday morning, and I came to the office today because I have stuff to do in New York.|
|Jodi Katz||So I had to bring all my equipment with me from home and set it up in our podcast recording studio. So, most people who’ve been to any of our Instagram Lives don’t even know that we have a podcast recording studio in our office that gets infrequent use these days because I’ve been recording these from home. But it’s just a whole new feeling and experience today. But I will tell you, Esperanza, I am recording because I was so scared I was going to forget to record.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Great, great. I’m glad that you did that for me.|
|Jodi Katz||So, I guess we’ll just give a little bit of background about who we’re waiting to join in. Our episode today is with Gail Federici. She’s super, super major in the hair world. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of the John Frieda brand. It’s because of her. She basically invented a whole bunch of categories in hair. And joining her is Chris Appleton, who’s a very well-known celebrity hairstylist who, I mean, if you just go to his Instagram feed, it’s basically all Kim K and J.Lo and him, and his pursuits outside of hair, which seems to be a lot of fitness and fun. And they’re in partnership together in Gail’s brand, Color Wow. They do a lot of work together.
So I love that for our Artistry theme, we were able to bring together a brand owner and a super influencer and talk about that relationship.
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Yeah, absolutely. It’s funny, whenever I describe Chris, I always say that he looks like a statue. He’s just the most impressively beautiful person ever.|
|Jodi Katz||So we’re just waiting for Gail and Chris to tune in and to join us. And then what we’ll do is what we call the Green Room work, which is if we were doing an actual live podcast recording, we’d have these conversations with our guests in private and do a tech check. But since we get to do this live, you all get to see the types of questions we ask and prep we do to make sure that once this Instagram Live is over, we have the right quality of our audio files to make you a supremely awesome podcast if you choose to listen in those classic podcasting apps.
So I see that Chris is here. Let’s see if I can bring him in. Chris, if you want to ask to join, or I can find you. Let’s see who can beat each other to it.
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Oh, and there’s Color Wow as well.|
|Jodi Katz||Oh, cool. Let me grab them too.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Yay! Hello.|
|Chris Appleton||How’s it going?|
|Chris Appleton||Thanks for having us. I’m so excited to do this.|
|Jodi Katz||Oh, yay. We’re all here.|
|Jodi Katz||Hello, everybody.|
|Chris Appleton||Hi, Gail.|
|Jodi Katz||So, welcome both to Where Brains Meet Beauty podcast. You are right now in the Green Room of our show. But since we’re live, everybody gets to see the Green Room. So before we actually launch into our proper podcast recording, Esperanza, our producer, is here, and she’s going to walk you through the tech check and make sure we’re all set to have a great episode together.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Hello, hello. It’s great [inaudible]. Thanks so much for coming today. So I’m going to try to make this tech check as quick and as easy as possible. So, first things first. Do you both have headphones with you?|
|Gail Federici||I have them on.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Excellent. Chris, do you have headphones nearby by any chance?|
|Chris Appleton||Yeah. Don’t know where the connector…|
|Jodi Katz||Now this is the magic of podcasting, which is, we wait for our tech to work.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Exactly. So, in the meantime, I’ll explain why we have headphones going. And I’m sure you know our guests will be interested in this too if you’re interested in podcasting. So we are a dual formatted podcast. We do these on Live here on Instagram, and then we also record these episodes for podcast feeds later. So in order to make sure that everybody has clean audio for our audio engineer, we have everybody involved wearing headphones so that their audio that’s recorded on a second device doesn’t bleed onto other people’s tracks. So, Chris, I see that you’ve got a little circle going there, but I see that you do have headphones in. So I’m going to continue on. Gail—oh, oh, Chris is gone!|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||It’s okay. He’ll be back. So, Gail, do you have a second device with you, by any chance?|
|Joanna Czech||Yes. Mm-hmm.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Excellent. What are you using? Are you using a second phone, your computer?|
|Joanna Czech||Yeah, an iPhone.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Excellent. Great. Okay. So your headphones are connected to which phone?|
|Joanna Czech||To my phone, the Color Wow.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||To the one that you’re doing the Live from, correct?|
|Joanna Czech||Yes, mm-hmm.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Excellent. Great. And now can I see your second device? Great. DO you already have Voice Memos open, by any chance?|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Great. Okay. And are you recording?|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Excellent. Okay. So now the final thing, I need to make sure that your second phone is on Airplane Mode.|
|Joanna Czech||Airplane Mode? Yes, it is. Okay.|
|Jodi Katz||Oh, Gail, thank you so much for paying attention. We’re so grateful.|
|Joanna Czech||It was almost a disaster right before, but luckily it worked out.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||It’s okay. Even if there’s any sort of technical difficulties, that’s why I’m here to walk you through it, so no worries.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Okay. As soon as Chris comes back on, I’ll walk through this with him, and then we can get started with the interview.|
|Joanna Czech||Perfect. I have my phone resting on a book to prop it up. Can you hear my voice okay or is it muffled?|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||All is good.|
|Joanna Czech||Okay, good.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Jodi, all is good for you too, right?|
|Jodi Katz||Yeah, you sound great, Gail, and your lighting’s amazing, and your bookshelf’s so pretty.|
|Gail Federici||My usual place during the pandemic. It’s too crazy in the office now, so I thought I’d better get back to the house.|
|Jodi Katz||Oh, how sweet is that, though, that it’s so busy in the office, right?|
|Gail Federici||Yeah. Yeah. Not every day, but in the beginning of the week. People are coming in two to three days a week. But some people really have been coming in every day. Depends on what their job is.|
|Jodi Katz||I’m in the office today in New York, and I’m the only person here. There’s usually one, two, three people here when they want to get out of their apartments. And when I walked in, I realized that the office cleaning team did not come in over the weekend, so. And we had a party last week where everybody was covered in confetti, so you can just imagine what this office looked like.|
|Gail Federici||Oh my God.|
|Jodi Katz||So I spent like an hour vacuuming this whole place, every corner, to try to get every stitch of confetti up. And that’s life as a founder, right?|
|Gail Federici||Yeah. Yeah. You do whatever it takes, right?|
|Jodi Katz||I emptied out the garbage, I tidied up the restroom, you know.|
|Gail Federici||I totally get it.|
|Jodi Katz||The universe gave me that extra time in the morning and that extra faster train ride to be able to get here and do that job.|
|Gail Federici||Exactly. I mean, it all works out somehow, with all the ups and downs. It is a roller coaster though, isn’t it?|
|Jodi Katz||Yes. And the small action of vacuuming actually made me so happy. I felt so orderly, right? It’s like making your bed in the morning. I couldn’t have done my work and been as focused with you today if I knew there were piles of confetti all over the floor. So it really relaxed me.|
|Gail Federici||Well, I probably am on high alert then, because if you ever saw my room that I’m in right now, because I’m leaving for London Friday, and I’m in the midst of packing. And the whole room looks like some kind of a warehouse. So I hope Chris can get back.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||There we go.|
|Jodi Katz||Oh yeah. Hello, Chris.|
|Chris Appleton||I don’t know what happened.|
|Gail Federici||All good?|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||No worries.|
|Chris Appleton||Yeah, I just had to plug my ears in.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Excellent. Okay, so let’s quickly run through the rest of the tech check so that we can get started on the interview.|
|Oh, we do the tech check from the Live. All right.|
|Yeah, yeah, yeah.|
|Jodi Katz||But you’re in the Green Room right now. But everybody can see you in the Green Room, right?|
|I have this thing on and I have my ears in, so are we good?|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Perfect, yes. Just to make sure, with your second device, is it on Airplane Mode?|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Excellent. I’m going to leave you guys to it. Have a great time.|
|Jodi Katz||Thanks, Esperanza.|
|Gail Federici||Thank you.|
|Jodi Katz||Okay. Well, thank you both for being here with you. I want to be super honest with you, this is my 217th recording on this podcast, and I am crazy nervous. To be together with both of you and to have made this Artistry story happen on our podcast is so thrilling. And I have tingles up my arms.|
|Gail Federici||Oh my God.|
|Jodi Katz||That’s where my energy goes when I get nervous. And I wouldn’t say I’m dizzy, but I’m really honestly a little lightheaded. So I’m so glad that we were able to make this happen. And so, I’m going to actually start the proper recording now, so everything that I’ll say after this moment is what our listeners will be able to download when the episode’s available.|
|Gail Federici||Sounds good.|
|Jodi Katz||Great. Well, welcome back, everyone to Where Brains Meet Beauty. Today we’re continuing our artistry theme with a very exciting duo from Color Wow Hair. Our first guest in this pair is an industry veteran and beauty mogul. She launched some of the most iconic products over the last 30 years. So if you’ve ever styled your hair, there’s a huge chance you’ve experienced her innovation. As co-founder and CEO, John Frieda, pro hair care, her and her team forever changed the beauty industry landscape through their unique perspective approach to hair care. After selling John Frieda, she moved on to found Federici Brands, the parent company of her award-winning Color Wow. It’s a hair care company that TikTok can’t stop raving about. It’s my pleasure to introduce Gail Federici, CEO of Federici.|
|Jodi Katz||Hi, Gail.|
|Gail Federici||Nice to be here. Hi, nice to be here.|
|Jodi Katz||I’m so glad you’re here, but you’re not alone. So I’m also excited to introduce our second guest. From Los Angeles to New York and London to Paris, he’s known for his work as a world-renowned conceptual hairstylist. You’ve seen his work featured everywhere, like literally everywhere, the list is so long. He’s behind the trendsetting styles of the most iconic celebrities of this time. Please welcome Chris Appleton, celebrity hairstylist and global creative director of Color Wow. Hi, Chris.|
|Chris Appleton||Oh, hey.|
|Jodi Katz||Thank you for being here. So before we jump into our show and we totally focus on career journey, so we’re not the tips and tricks type of show, but we’re really focused on journey, I do have to ask a question that’s a little out of the ordinary. Chris, on your Instagram today, you showed yourself bungee jumping and skydiving, so now I’m wondering, how did you spend your time this weekend?|
|Jodi Katz||Did we lose Chris?|
|Gail Federici||It’s circling. I don’t know.|
|Jodi Katz||Okay. Well, we… yeah, Chris, I think you’re having tech challenges connecting. So Gail, I’m going to ask you while we wait for Chris. Okay, so I’m wondering, did you go bungee jumping earlier this weekend?|
|Gail Federici||Let me tell you, that would be the last thing you would ever find me doing. I think he’s out of his mind. Parachuting and bungee jumping? Never in a million years would I do it. My speed this weekend was pickleball and swimming. And I tried cold plunging also for the first time. But that’s the extent of my adventure this weekend.|
|Jodi Katz||I went to a Barry Manilow concert.|
|Gail Federici||Oh, nice. How was it?|
|Jodi Katz||He’s amazing.|
|Gail Federici||He’s incredible. He is incredible.|
|Jodi Katz||Yeah. I was literally crying, letting tears run down my face, because, number one, he’s such—his voice is just dreamy.|
|Gail Federici||Incredible. Mm-hmm.|
|Jodi Katz||So smooth. His storytelling is beautiful.|
|Gail Federici||I heard that. He’s used in so many commercials that it’s shocking. I didn’t ever realize. The first time I saw him in concert, he was doing some. I had no idea.|
|Jodi Katz||Right. These really famous jingles, the Band-Aid jingle, I’m stuck on Band-Aid brand and Band-Aid’s stuck on me. The State Farm commercial, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. He wrote that jingle. And I just love his storytelling. And his voice is so strong. He had his microphone actually really low, like by his rib cage. And it was like, oh, I’m not going to be able to hear him, is what I was thinking. Why won’t the man hold the microphone up? He did not need it any higher. His voice was booming.|
|Gail Federici||Wow. He just projects.|
|Jodi Katz||Yes. And I turned to the person I was with, and I said, “I’m so glad that we’re here, and how could we not have come to this? It’s magical.”|
|Gail Federici||Where was it?|
|Jodi Katz||In New Jersey at the Prudential Center.|
|Gail Federici||Oh wow. I haven’t seen him in concert in so many years.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, I just didn’t want to miss it, right? And I don’t know when there’ll be another one, right?|
|Gail Federici||Well, that “Mandy” song of his was all over TikTok. Did you see it, with that kid?|
|Chris Appleton||Hi, guys, I’m back. I’m sorry. I couldn’t hear anything you were saying when you started talking, so sorry if I—it kept being just blurry. And then I heard you say, “Chris.” And I was like, “Oh.” But now I turned my WiFi off, so now it works.|
|Jodi Katz||Chris, we’re just talking about Barry Manilow and how awesome he is.|
|Chris Appleton||Who’s that?|
|Gail Federici||Come on.|
|Jodi Katz||Barry Manilow?|
|Chris Appleton||No, guys, I have no idea who you’re talking about. But I remember you said what did I do this weekend, and I didn’t do anything for the first time in a long time, which was really nice. That was kind of a novelty to me. I feel like I’m always doing something. So I just enjoyed my house and was just a bit lazy. I worked out and just kind of enjoyed hanging out with the kids and just being dad and being lazy, and I don’t know, having fun. I took my daughter shopping. We talked about life stuff. It was a really nice weekend, just relaxed.|
|Jodi Katz||I think there’s something falling into your view.|
|Gail Federici||That is unusual.|
|Chris Appleton||Yeah, it’s my sister Nikki. She loves to get in there.|
|Jodi Katz||Hi, Nikki.|
|Chris Appleton||She says hey.|
|Jodi Katz||So Chris, when you are at home when you do have that rare weekend of actually doing nothing, is there any binge watching happening?|
|Chris Appleton||No, I don’t really watch TV, interestingly. I’m not a TV person. I don’t know why. I just don’t—I find it very difficult to get engaged in it. It feels—I should do it more. I know it’s kind of like, I’ll just relax and watch TV. But me just being at home puttering around the house was a development for me, because I’m normally just—I can’t really sit still. But I’ve kind of learned the importance in life of sometimes just being present and just being in the moment. I mean, I was like, “Oh, let’s go to Six Flags. Let’s go.” And then I was like, “No, let’s just…” I actually wasn’t very well. I had a bit of a cold. And I was like, maybe I just need to chill out.|
|Chris Appleton||Yeah. Which, as Gail knows, I’m not really that great at that.|
|Chris Appleton||I just like to feel like I’m living. But sometimes living is just being present and in the moment as well. It’s not always being on a roller coaster or jumping off an airplane, you know?|
|Jodi Katz||Yeah. Well, for me, sometimes living is just watching The Real Housewives. And that makes me so happy in that moment.|
|Jodi Katz||That’s what I need.|
|Chris Appleton||That’s cute.|
|Gail Federici||Yeah. I like a good binge watch myself. Periodically. I don’t watch too much TV, but I like to binge some Netflix and some Amazon Prime and all that.|
|Chris Appleton||Everything in moderation.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, I think we’re a little delayed, so I’ll be a little more—I’m a fast talker from New Jersey, so I’ll be a little more thoughtful in my pacing to make sure I don’t talk over you.|
|Gail Federici||That’s fine.|
|Jodi Katz||So let’s get on to the topic of career—|
|Chris Appleton||I know someone just told me in the comments to stop moving.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, this is why we do it live, because there is no perfect. This is the whole point of my show. It’s all about creating and humanizing our industry. And things get messy, right? So, I embrace that and love that and appreciate you going with the flow with me. So let’s jump into the topic of our show, which is all about career journey. And we brought you both together on this artistry theme because I thought it’d be so fun for our listeners to learn about the backstory and what happens behind the scenes in your partnership.
But first, we’re going to start at the very beginning. This is my favorite question, since we talk about career journey. Gail, think back to your 11-year-old self. What do you want to be when you grow up?
|Gail Federici||You know, I had absolutely no idea when I was 11. But I loved putting shows on in the neighborhood.|
|Chris Appleton||Oh, Gail, make it up. Come on.|
|Gail Federici||I am. I’m not making it up.|
|Chris Appleton||Give us a story.|
|Gail Federici||No. You just cut me off. Of course, I knew it was going to happen. I said to everyone, “I have something to say here, Chris Appleton.” Because I was putting shows on in the neighborhood, and I thought basically I was casting for all sorts of different Broadway shows that we would put on in the neighborhood. And I always thought I wanted to go into entertainment, I what I thought at 11.|
|Jodi Katz||And when you were 11, did you think you were the star of the show, or were you the producer of the show?|
|Gail Federici||I produced the show, but I also starred in it. But I knew that was not a good idea after my first performance. But yeah, I liked producing. I still do.|
|Jodi Katz||And Chris, your 11-year-old self, close your eyes. What was your dream?|
|Chris Appleton||Oh, I knew I was going to do hair. I was doing it when I was like nine years old. I used to do my mum’s hair as a kid. I used to pay my younger sister, poor thing, for me to cut her hair or do stuff to it. She got my first haircut ever. I put some marigolds on for protection. I’m not sure why. But I was being professional. And I cut her hair with kitchen scissors like in a bob. And if anyone knows anything about hair, the hardest haircut you can really do is a bob to get it symmetrical. And I think she ended up with this asymmetrical thing. And I remember at night—she was only like six. And I remember seeing her in bed that night. I went in the room to look at it and she was asleep, and she looked like she’d come out of a—I don’t know what she looked like. She’d come out of a—I just remember thinking, oh God, you can really make people look bad when you don’t give them a good haircut.
And then the result of that also was that I used to do my mum’s hair. And when she stood up—I’ve said this story a lot, but it really resonates that when she stood up and looked in the mirror, I really noticed the difference in her. Because she was a working mum of five. She had a rough life, she had a tough life, and she got a lot of family. And I realized that when I did her hair, I could somewhat make her feel like a different person, or at least make her feel like she wasn’t just a working mum of five. And her shoulders would go back and she’d stand taller. And that for me was almost—I don’t know. It felt like a superpower. It felt like something I could give back. And making people happy was just really, really, I don’t know, rewarding for me.
And then I remember my first day in a salon, I was 13, I remember someone walking in, and their shoulders were down and their hair was scraped back. She had a coat on. It was cold in England. And she had her hair done. And it was kind of blown out. And when she walked back, I swear her shoulders were sort of back, and she looked more confident. And I saw that a lot from my career, and whether it was a cancer patient or just someone that wanted to look good. I don’t know, for me, it was always such a rewarding experience and still is now. So really, my 11-year-old self still feels the same way. A lot of people stop me now. It’s funny, some people think I’m successful, whatever that means. And it’s funny because I’m like, “Oh yeah, I guess I am now.” But it’s funny because I still just do what I always did, which is just like to make people look and feel good.
And I guess you could get them very famous women, because you almost become not—I don’t see Kim as Kim Kardashian that everyone sees, or J.Lo as Jennifer Lo… you know, I see them as real women that I’m making them—it’s a process. I’m sort of creating something. And I guess you forget that when they go out, the whole world is watching. And I kind of like that I’m still a little not naive to that, because obviously I know on a bigger scale, but I kind of like that in my head, I don’t look at it that way. I don’t do it for that. I don’t do it for that attention of everyone and what they think. I really do it because I like making that one person feel great, you know?
|Jodi Katz||Well, thank you for sharing those stories. I just want to let everyone know what they walked themselves into. You are at Where Brains Meet Beauty podcast, and we’re having a career journey conversation with Gail and Chris. And a lot of people are saying hi, so I want to just say hello and thank you for joining to Shelly, and Fiona, and Goryking, and AmyRosen, and Stacy, and ColeNitra, and Stephie. So many people saying that they basically love you both. I mean, there’s just so much love in the room right now.|
|Chris Appleton||Aw, thank you.|
|Jodi Katz||And from all over the world, as you can imagine. And then AmyRosen, who feels like a friend, wrote, “Chris’s products are Color Wow.”|
|Chris Appleton||That’s a good one.|
|Jodi Katz||So that’s super sweet. So, okay, we’re going to-|
|Chris Appleton||You know what’s really interesting, just before we move on.|
|Jodi Katz||Tell me.|
|Chris Appleton||You just asked me a question that no one’s asked me before, which is—oh, my sister’s on this, Louise. Hi, Louise. She’s the one that I gave the bad haircut to, so. Props to her. I would like to have known Gail when I was 11. I mean, there’s a lot of years between us in age. I’m very young. And so, but if you could—|
|Gail Federici||Yeah. I’m very old. I’m glad you pointed it out.|
|Chris Appleton||No, Gail, you look amazing. No, but seriously, I would love to have you when I was 11. Imagine you doing what you do and I doing what I do. I’d just love to have seen that childhood. Because it’s funny, because when we’re together, we are a bit like two kids in the way that we will plan stuff or—|
|Gail Federici||Totally. Totally.|
|Chris Appleton||… the innocence of it all. It always feels very organic and very kind of fun and we’re always laughing or bringing—you know, we’re kind of backwards and forwards. And it’s kind of a chaos, but a real amazing creative one. So yeah, I think it would have been really fun to have known you at that age. Although maybe we bring out the child in each other. And I think that’s a really healthy thing, because sometimes life is so heavy, you get so stuck in a routine. And that’s what I love about working with Gail, is she’s not afraid to—she always wants to do something different. She always wants to do something fresh.
So she gets as bored as I do. She’s like, what is new? What’s fresh? What’s in? What do people want? What’s fresh? And I like that. I think it’s—especially in the industry we are in and the world that we’re in now with Instagram and TikTok, people want to see new things all the time. They want to see new technologies. They want to see better technologies. And they want it right away, you know?
|Jodi Katz||Well, Chris, you helped me host here, because you segued beautifully to our next question, which I’ll ask Gail. How did you meet Chris?|
|Gail Federici||You know, I always like working with a creative partner, with a stylist. So when I was working with John, it was the perfect arrangement. I like to bounce ideas off someone who is creative and who has the same aesthetic and the same overall vision for where they want to go. So I had—when we started Color Wow, I wanted to find that person that could be my partner, sounding board. And that helps with the fun of working, like Chris said. We like to challenge each other. We like to make things look different. We like to make people feel good. And that’s what our company is all about, problem/solution. It’s trying to help women.
So, I spent a lot of time, because the chemistry has to be right between the two of you, and your aesthetic has to be the same. So, I’ve looked at so many books. People were bringing me portfolios. I was going online trying to find somebody for years, several years. And then I saw this book someone brought me, and they said, “Do you know who Chris Appleton is?” I said, “I have no idea. Let me see the portfolio.” So they said, “Well, he’s doing Rita Ora. And he’s from the UK.”
So I looked at his book, and I tend to always look to see runway a lot of times because you can’t photo, do any—what’s the word I’m looking for?—photoshopping of the runway, really. It’s real, what they look like. So I tend to go there first. And often, I’ll see hair that’s not even close to the editorial hair. But with Chris, every single type of shot was perfect. And it had an edge, but it was edgy rock’n’roll, but so incredibly well-executed. I mean, he had such an intention for, I mean, detail, and he just executed everything, to my taste, perfectly. And I said, “Who is this guy? We have to talk to him.”
So we had an interview. It was, I think, in 2016.
|Chris Appleton||I remember it.|
|Gail Federici||Yeah. And he didn’t know me, obviously, from Adam. And I did not know him. And I talked to him. And he was as hilarious. He was totally himself, which he is. He would sort of make jokes and poke fun at me, and he didn’t even know me at all. And he—|
|Chris Appleton||Oh yeah. Do you remember what I said? The first thing I said to you.|
|Gail Federici||Yeah. I do.|
|Chris Appleton||I said, “Do you know who you mind me of?” I don’t know if anyone in the questions can guess. But she reminded me of—it’s from a film, it’s a movie, a very well-known movie. And she’s a bit of a boss.|
|Gail Federici||So I’m thinking, “Oh.” I didn’t...|
|Chris Appleton||So she says, “Who?” She says, “Who?” And I says, “Meryl Streep in Devil Wears Prada.”|
|Gail Federici||But he meant the character, not that I was like Meryl Streep.|
|Gail Federici||He meant the character. And I just had to laugh because I thought, that is hilarious that he would say that to me, like right off the bat. But anyway, we decided, well, let’s work together for six months and see how it goes. And then it’s just kept on ever since then—|
|Chris Appleton||Oh my God. Everyone always says The Devil Wears Prada, because that’s what you’re giving here, Gail.|
|Gail Federici||What? I am right now?|
|Chris Appleton||Everyone’s saying it in the comments. Yeah.|
|Gail Federici||No way.|
|Jodi Katz||Also, Schitt’s Creek was just mentioned, interestingly. So, by the way, I once had the job of being the assistant to the editor-in-chief of a fashion magazine, and I was not good at that job. It is not an easy job.|
|Gail Federici||I didn’t hear the beginning.|
|Jodi Katz||Oh, you didn’t hear. One of my jobs before owning my own business was being the assistant to the editor-in-chief of Cosmo and then Glamour.|
|Gail Federici||Yeah. It’s a lot of work.|
|Chris Appleton||It is. It’s tough, that business.|
|Jodi Katz||I mean, I didn’t know how to take care of myself at that age, and I had to basically have the job of taking care of someone else. And I was not made for it.|
|Gail Federici||Not cut out for that.|
|Jodi Katz||So, this is so great that this all started with a portfolio. It’s six years now, if I’m right with the timing?|
|Gail Federici||Yeah. Mm-hmm. Six years.|
|Jodi Katz||So when you first saw that book, Gail, influencer marketing looked a lot different then. Six years ago is like a million years ago in this space.|
|Jodi Katz||So you were really looking to Chris as an artistic partner.|
|Gail Federici||As an artistic partner and to help with development of products, because he just—he knew products, actually, better than anybody else I’ve ever known. And I’ve worked with so many people over the years. And it amazed me about Chris as we worked together, the amount of product he used, and how it always made the hair look better and better, which is an art. Because if you’re using too much product, typically, the hair starts to go where you don’t want it to. It starts to get too greasy or too stiff or whatever. But he is like an architect. He builds on things. And I’ve never seen anybody work with hair the way Chris does. Never. And so, it was really interesting to me.
And I remember his first trade show. And I had been to so many trade shows over the years. I wrote a book with Dwight Miller for hair cutting. I wrote something with John on styling. I thought, been there, done there, got the T-shirt. I don’t want to go to Chris’s first show. Even though I love Chris, I thought, “Uch, I’ve been to so many.” Anyway, supporting Chris, I went, and the distributor. I went. And I am telling you, this is no lie, I was mesmerized. The way he talked about what he did was so fresh and so different that I honestly learned a lot through that. And I didn’t think—not that I think I know everything, but I’ve just seen so many people do hair over the years, and within education, at one point. It was really incredible, his approach and the way he—it’s not only his eye. There’s something very architectural about the way he does things. It’s a real fine art form, I think, the way Chris approaches hair.
|Chris Appleton||Thanks, Gail. By the way, this is really quite a groundbreaking moment, to hear Gail speak so highly of me, because honestly, you would never say it. She likes to treat me mean, keep me keen kind of attitude. She’s like, “Well, you can do better.” I’m like, “Oh, okay, I’ll go out there and do better.” I’m just laughing it up.|
|Jodi Katz||So Chris, we go back six years to when she called you for that meeting and then started a short-term partnership with you. What did you think you were going to get out of that partnership at that time?|
|Chris Appleton||No idea. I remember, okay, so my story is this. I started at the age of 13 in a salon. I started doing hair, and I really loved it, because I liked making people look and feel good. I worked through the salon, and I just always had this ambition to me good, be better, prove that I was enough to myself, to others—I don’t know where that came from. I did that in the salon, and I reached the top price level. And then I was like, what’s next? And I’m like, oh, there’s this thing called fashion and editorial hair. I said, “Oh, let me go up and do the shows. Let’s go up and do Fashion Week.”
So I did all the Fashion Week shows. And then I started doing editorials with doing photo shoots and how the concept of hair for a salon would last six weeks. That’s how long someone would want it to last. Where for a show, it lasts six minutes, or for an editorial, it was like—editorial is very different hair to real hair. Editorial would be like one piece of hair laying across—it’s not like real life hair. But it’s all just different concepts of hair and different visions of how it works. And I really just loved learning it.
I was on a shoot one day, and a makeup artist worked with Rita Ora. And she’s like, “Rita’s looking for a new hairdresser.” And I was like, “Oh, I’d love to do it.” Anyway, cut forward two years. I stayed with her for two years. I remember I had a call from J.Lo’s team for an opportunity to work with her in Vegas when she’d just started the show. And I was like, “How does J.Lo know who I am? I’m just this guy from northern England.” And I thought it was a nice compliment, but probably it wouldn’t happen. Anyway, I got another email another time from their team, and I was like, maybe I need to be there. Maybe I need to be—maybe I can do this.
So I literally finished working with Rita Ora on the 23rd of December for the X-Factor. She was going off to do a film for six months which I didn’t need to do. And I was like, I’m just going to do it. So I packed two suitcases. I had a fully furnished apartment in the UK, in London, in [?Agel]. I just sacked it all. It was all nice. I took as much as I could, which was two big double bags of stuff, went to America, and didn’t go back. I didn’t work for the first four months, and I was very nervous because I was like, oh my God, I was hoping this was going to happen.
But then I guess this was all simultaneous. And I’m really a big—I’m a big thumbs-up for social media. And I know people have different ideas of social media, and we can get into that later, and I respect both. But for me, I’m a guy, British, from a small town in northern England, with a dream. And I just wanted to do what I loved. And J.Lo, world-renowned pop star, seemed to know who I was. And I had to be like, “Well, how did she know?” And it was just through social media. People look. It doesn’t matter. People don’t necessarily follow you. I say to people all the time, people are always so inquisitive. Click, “Oh, her hair looks good. Who does her hair? Who does her makeup? Who’s that photographer? Those images are amazing.” We’re just all so inquisitive, and we just end up on different people’s pages. And it made the world a smaller place. And I know for a fact that if I wasn’t on social media, I wouldn’t be in America. I wouldn’t be talking to you right now, and this relationship wouldn’t have happened.
So it was in that first sort of period of time, maybe I’d just started for Christina Aguilera on The Voice. And I think I’d done Ariana Grande. I can’t remember. But I was relatively new to America. So everything just felt big and very new. And I got the call from Gail, and they wanted to talk to me. And it just felt very organic. It was like we are now. We was laughing with each other, and I was saying she was like Meryl Streep, and she was not sure what to say. And it was just kind of like this kind of backwards and forwards energy. And it just always seemed to click.
And I think a lot of people say to me, “Oh, you’ve been with Color Wow for a long time. Is this your product?” And “How come you’ve stayed with them?” And honestly, I think I’m a really loyal person to good things. And I think not only working with Color Wow, is it a great product and I really believe in it, but also, they’re really good people. And at the heart of it, it’s a good family of people that really want to give back to people and solve problems, solve hair problems. Real hair problems. And for me, I think that authenticity is what made our relationship just blossom.
Because I’m really the same. I mean, a lot of people see my social media and they’ll make an assumption of me of like, “Okay, he posts famous women. He posts hot pictures of himself.” Everything looks pretty hot and perfect. But I’m not stupid. I can see it, you know? But that’s just a very small, tiny part of really who I am. That’s just—I’m the hairdresser with the blond hair and works out and has great clients. But beyond all of that really is a lot more of wholesome—I don’t like going to bougie parties. I’d rather stay at home and have dinner with my kids and do what I did this weekend. And I think really, that’s what Gail and the team are like. It’s just real stuff. It’s real life. It’s about solving real problems and helping real women.
And it’s like, it doesn’t matter if you’re not J.Lo. We’ll show you how to look like that, or this is quite simple. These are the products you use, and this is the technique. And I think we just tried to break it down from something that felt unattainable to actually being attainable and like, “Oh, I can have hair like that. I can have waterproof hair. I can have super shiny hair. My hair’s not shiny.” We just tried to sort of solve problems and give hair hacks.
And even the way Gail’s moved with TikTok into giving back. We give away so much free content. You could charge for this. We could do masterclasses and stuff. But it’s all free online. We’re constantly giving hair hacks and techniques to make people look and feel better on a daily basis. And I think that for me is—I don’t know. It just feels good on the daily. It feels good. It’s never felt forced. It’s never felt like I’m trying to sell a product. It’s always just felt really organic. And so I feel really lucky, honestly.
|Gail Federici||I do too. I feel like we are motivated by the same thing. I think we both hard. Our team works really hard. And what motivates us is really making a difference. Like Chris said, right from the beginning with his mother, it’s rewarding to see that. And for me, I started with frizzy hair because I have that problem. So with the original frizzy serum, it’s a problem, and nobody had anything out there at the time. And so, that’s what started this problem/solution, because I personally know how much better I felt when I had something that helped with my issue.
And I think that’s part of the fun too, when are getting together and working with Dr. Joe, the chemist, and we set something out for him to say, “If we could do this, this would be amazing for this group of women out there.” And Chris will give his input, I will. And then when you reach that point, it could take a year or it could take three years, it is so rewarding. And when you get the feedback online and people are messaging us, it is just—it’s fun also. You feel good. That’s what gets you up in the morning, really.
We always said, the company, that when you make something that matters, you make money. And it’s more fun that way. Some people just set out to make money, and that’s fine, and they figure out their way to do it. But for us, I think both of us, we really set out to make something that matters and put our whole being into that. And then naturally, I think, if you’re working hard and that’s your motivation, things do happen for you in the right way, in the way you want them to.
|Jodi Katz||As a marketer, it’s really nice to see and hear this backstory, because in my day job where I run a beauty marketing firm, there’s a lot of pressure. Clients feel a lot of pressure to jump into engagements because they have to be part of the party. And no one really knows what to do anymore, right, because there’s so many things to do and not enough resources, right? So, in general, I think if you’re running a brand or a CMO of a brand, you’re kind of like a little overwhelmed, I guess, is a nice way of putting it.|
|Gail Federici||Yeah. Mm-hmm.|
|Jodi Katz||So it’s really just beautiful to hear that this was paced out, the right size relationship at the beginning that was allowed to evolve and grow as the business grew. And I’m hoping that some of our listeners who are CMOs will be able to take a little bit of a breath that you blink, and then you’re in a relationship between Color Wow and Chris Appleton. But it didn’t start out as what we know it is today.|
|Gail Federici||No. And I will say that when I first saw Chris’s portfolio, only Rita Ora was in there. So there’s a lot of things that happened since I met Chris. And he is still really—I have to say this. He’s still the same person. There has been—he was still as annoying in the beginning as he is now. I’m only kidding.|
|Chris Appleton||It’s true.|
|Gail Federici||He has always been the same. No, not at all.|
|Chris Appleton||I know, I’m sitting here. I was just sitting here shaking my Alexa. I think I might have ADHD. I’ve never been diagnosed, but I’m like, why can’t I sit still? I’m just like want to keep going. I’m diagnosing myself.|
|Gail Federici||He never stops. He never stops. So maybe this rest period for him has got him a little shaky. He’s used to being perpetually in motion, as you can see from jumping out of planes, and bungee jumping, and roller coasters, so.|
|Chris Appleton||I love it.|
|Gail Federici||I know you do. It’s inspired me this weekend.|
|Chris Appleton||I know Gail [crosstalk]. I’m happy to see you living. The thing is, well, I think what’s really important is, for me—I was talking about social media and how my Instagram looks. It’s interesting because my social media, I love it, but it’s also annoying as well. Because on a personal front, everyone has a business side, everyone has a professional side where you showcase. And I know on social media, a lot of people will show where they’re at a great event or they’re doing something fun. Rarely do we take a selfie picture at home where we’re looking like crap because we just don’t want to take a picture.
I actually really liked the transition—everyone’s gonna come for me right now—everyone’s going, “Me, Instagram, Instagram again.” I like that it’s becoming more of a video bit format, because to me, it enables you when you do a video to show a little bit more real life. It’s less polished. It’s less formulated. And it’s just a bit more—I’m a very visual person. I have dyslexia. I can’t learn… If someone wrote something on a board and said, “Learn that. Write it down,” it doesn’t mean anything to me. But if I spoke about it to someone, I’d be the best about, because I could bring color to it and make it come to life. So I think for me, I’m really all about the visual concept. And that’s why I think the video concept is actually really funny.
But I think social media is—I don’t even remember what I was talking about. What were we talking about? Where were we going? I always go off on these tangents.
|Jodi Katz||Well, I’m going to segue us to the next topics, because I’m being mindful of time. [Crosstalk] I’ve been working through the past five years on this show, and I’ve noticed that as I grow in my entrepreneurial endeavors and I’m learning from these other leaders in our industry, how people define success is all over the place, right? When I first started my business in this industry, I totally felt like money equals success. That’s all. I didn’t think of anything else. It wasn’t even a consideration. Now I feel like for me, it’s like I’m wealthy in flexibility, right, and that’s all that matters.
But I’m so curious. The two of you, in your careers, I would imagine that there’s such a seduction of success through the years in terms of starting, Gail, where you’ve been in so many different success stories in the business side of this, and then Chris in the artistry side. We can start with Gail on this. Do you recall times when success seduce you and called your name, and it made you have to choose between keep going on this path in this career and maybe how else you live your life beyond your career?
|Gail Federici||Honestly, I never thought about success. I really, really never did. And I honestly think when I was in college, I think people would never—I might be the least likely to succeed, in some ways. Because I was sort of jumping from thing to thing. I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do. But when I think about success, for me, it’s having something you do that you really like, and you want to put a lot of hours into it. Because if you’re working and you’re not liking what you’re doing, and you don’t want to dedicate a lot of time to it, that’s wasting away your life, really.
But for me, it’s work. It’s hard work building a brand. But I really enjoy solving problems. And for me, when we solve a problem, that is success for me. And as we identify problem after problem, and when we finally can crack that problem, that feels like success to me. And it always has. And that’s, I think, what’s propelled me. And I like to keep on going until we crack something. Or or if we could deliver something fun in the way we sell our products. Even Chris, in the bathtub, for [?Moneymass], on the billboard. I loved doing that with you. Do you know what I mean? It was a way to promote a product, but also a little bit in a cheeky way and a memorable way that people could look at and enjoy the image.
Similar to Chris, I’m visual also. And I love creating moments and images that you don’t forget. So I just really like what I’m doing. And I like to bring and make a difference to people.
|Chris Appleton||Yeah, that’s true.|
|Jodi Katz||And Chris, how do you define success today?|
|Chris Appleton||I don’t know. I don’t love that question, because what is success, really? Everyone’s successful in some aspect of their life. I think ti’s more about happiness for me now. I don’t think it’s about success. People stop me in the street a lot, and it’s really odd to me because they’re like, “Oh, you’re Chris Appleton.” I’m like, “Oh yeah, I am.” “And I mean, you’ve become that guy on social media like that.” And I’m like, “Oh yeah, yeah.” And they’re like, “You’re doing so well. You’re very successful.” And I’m like, “Oh, okay.” But to me, it’s like, am I? I’m just doing what I did when I was 13. I’ve always just done what I’ve done. All of a sudden now I guess if you do something long enough and you work hard enough at it, and you put enough dedication and passion and love into it, yeah. If you’re lucky, you get the chance to become successful.
But I think for me, a successful life is a happy life. It’s not about—money comes and goes. And I think for me, the most valuable thing is having happiness where I’m at. Because what’s the point if you can buy the best house you can afford or you can work with amazing people, but you hate your life? I think for me, I really just try and focus on being happy, being present, being grounded, and feeling grateful. I’m grateful every day I work up in LA and I have the sun shine in. And I’m grateful to have my kids, and I can bring to America to experience a different side of life. A different side of life that I experience. So I don’t really think—I think we’re all successful. I think the best success and the most successful people are the ones that make any situation happy and are grounded.
I think what was really good actually for a lot of people, I know it was good for me as well, is COVID, because it was the first time that we all kind of went back to zero. It didn’t matter who you were. It didn’t matter what you did. It didn’t matter how much money you had. You couldn’t buy yourself out of a situation where the world shut down and we were all at home. And when you’re at home on your own, or when you’re at home with people—it’s so easy to live separate lives. Whereas all of a sudden, when you’re at home, “This is my life. And am I happy with it?” We get so lost in the circles of life sometimes that I think it’s really good just to stop and be grounded. And that’s why I spent this weekend at home because I’m like it felt actually really good just to be. Not be spinning around, just being in one place, and just be grateful for the things you have in your life. So I think that is what success means to me.
|Jodi Katz||And Gail, last question for this part of the interview before we get into fan questions. Can you tell us about the work you do with Boston Children’s Hospital and HAIRraising?|
|Gail Federici||Yes, thank you for that question. My daughter—I had twins, and one of them was born with congenital heart disease. So, she had to have open heart surgery. She had surgery, closed heart surgery, at seven months. And she had to have open heart surgery when she was eight for the first time. And I had checked—this was before the internet. So I had made calls everywhere to find out where to bring her. And all roads led to Boston Children’s Hospital.
And so, I brought her up there for the first time. And there was a doctor up there, Dr. Jim Locke, who had invented something that was still being trialed. And it was going to give my daughter her best chance for life, for good of life, or for life itself. Anyway, he did the procedure on her. It was very successful. She then had open heart surgery at eight and again at 13 up there, and gets monitored by them. And she’s had two kids monitored by Boston Children’s Hospital too. So I owe so much to them. And it’s the number one pediatric hospital in the world.
So, we started HAIRraising. And the salons were so—they’re so generous, I think, hairstylists. So unbelievably generous. And we started it, and so many salons joined. And they give one day a year where—it’s on a Sunday—where they open up, and they give all of the proceeds to the hospital. So with the salon industry, we’ve made over a million dollars for the hospital. So I’m very proud of that.
|Jodi Katz||That’s amazing.|
|Chris Appleton||That’s amazing. Wow.|
|Jodi Katz||Gail, if more salons want to participate, how do they reach out to show support?|
|Gail Federici||They could go to our website, colorwowhair.com, and there’s information on there.|
|Jodi Katz||Great. Thank you for sharing that.|
|Gail Federici||Thank you.|
|Jodi Katz||So now we’re going to move on to fan questions. We have about eight minutes left, so let’s see how many we can get through. The first one is a tips and tricks. It’s from Sam. Sam with a lot of a numbers is asking, “What are some tips for oily roots and dry ends? It’s a struggle.” So, you tell me, Gail, Chris, who wants to take that question?|
|Chris Appleton||Go on, Gail.|
|Gail Federici||Chris… I thought you were going to take it.|
|Chris Appleton||Oily roots and dry hair. I think a lot of that starts for me with what you’re washing your hair in. I think shampoo is a really important part of that because it’s really about balancing. A lot of people use products that contain a lot of silicons in them, so shampoos that offer to soften the hair or volumize. And really, shampoo shouldn’t contain any of that. If it contains any of that, you should run a mile. The Color Wow Security Shampoo is amazing because not only does it just leave clean hair and clean scalp, it doesn’t leave anything behind. So there’s no ingredients that will weigh the hair down or sit on the scalp.
And a lot of the times, with the oiliness and the kind of then dry ends, it’s because there’s a mixture of silicons and extra ingredients left behind on the hair. And I think that’s where a lot of people go wrong. And that can also cause hair loss. It can impede all sorts of things when you don’t have that clarity on your scalp. So I would say the Color Wow Security Shampoo. I don’t know what you think, Gail, but that’s what I would say.
|Gail Federici||I think that was perfectly said. To me, that’s in many ways the most important product that we’ve ever made, because it’s crazy, but as—and we did it too when we had Frizzy and Sheer Blond. We put other ingredients in shampoos to de-frizz or to thicken. But in order to do that, the ingredients don’t rinse off. And with the shampoo, it’s the only thing that you massage into your scalp. All other products, you’re just spraying. But a shampoo, you massage in to your scalp. So you want to make sure that every ingredient rinses completely off. Because like Chris said, it could cause hair loss. It could leave the scalp oily. It could cause bacteria. So, I totally agree with that. I think that was our most important light bulb moment, when we recognized that.|
|Jodi Katz||So, this is a question for Chris. It’s by BeautybyStephanie, who’s asking—|
|Chris Appleton||Hi, BeautybyStephanie!|
|Jodi Katz||Thank you for listening, BeautybyStephanie. Do you ever feel anxious when you’re working with celebrity clients? And if so, how do you deal with that anxiety?|
|Chris Appleton||Not really. I don’t think I’d be able to do what I did if I did. I don’t know. I don’t know what happens. I just go in and do my job. I’m there to do a job. I’m not like, “Oh, my God, I’m totally gonna go and do J.Lo today.” I’m like, “Oh my God, I’ve got to do this person’s hair, and they’re going to go on a red carpet, and they need to really look and feel good. How am I going to make sure I do that? I need to make sure I turn up with all the right things, and I need to be very quick with time, and I need to be clear with my communication.” I go more down that route than like, “Oh, my God.” I’m not like a fan girl, so really—|
|Jodi Katz||But you’re talking about a checklist of really important things for really high-profile moments. But that doesn’t give you this kind of—a little bit of anxiety or tension to make sure that—what if you’re given 20 minutes to make a big look? Isn’t that kind of intense?|
|Chris Appleton||No. I think for me, it doesn’t matter if I’m doing Mrs. Jones that comes in the salon every week or J.Lo. I think I go about it the same way. And it’s more just about the process of how I’m going to make them look and feel good than—and in that timeline, than, “Oh, my God, am I overwhelmed? I’m working with a celebrity.” And I don’t know why I think like that. And I’m kind of glad I do because otherwise I probably wouldn’t have been able to just be as calm. I mean, I’ve been thrown a couple of times. I’ll share you a quick story.
The first story I worked with was Christina Aguilera on The Voice. And I got there. I’d just gotten to America for my first job. And I’m thinking like—that’s the only time it really got into my head. I’m like, “Oh, my God, this is Christina Aguilera. She’s huge! She’s doing everything.” And I looked at all her old videos and stuff. And I was like, “Oh, my God, she’s like an icon.” And so I got there, and there was three hours for glam. And she took the makeup artist in, and I was sitting outside. An hour went by, and I had two hours. And I’m like, “Okay, I can do this. I’ve got two hours.” And then two hours went by. I’m like, “Oh, I’ve got an hour. Not much time.” And then in the last 20 minutes before the live show of The Voice, she called me in.
And I was like, “What am I going to do? How am I going to do hair in 20 minutes?” And I’d never done her hair before, so I was a bit unsure. And I remember, I was thinking that she should put this wig on. I thought this wig would be really cute. And she was like, “Oh no, I don’t like wigs.” And I was like, “Oh, okay, yeah. Of course she doesn’t like wigs. She’s Christina Aguilera. Why would she?” So then there was sort of 15 minutes. I start drying her hair. And I’m like, “I’m going to have to go home to England.”
And before I left, a best friend of mine, Katie, she said to me—I was really nervous. And she said, “Just think about this. If you don’t make this work, you’re going to have to come back to England.” And I’d only just moved there, and it’s my first job. And kind of that voice came into my head. And I said, “Come on, Chris. You didn’t come this far to just come this far.” And I said, “Oh, you’ve never tried one of my wigs. Let me try it. Just try it. So I put it on, and she was like, “Oh. Oh.” And then she said to her stylist, she’s like, “What do you think?” She was like, “I like it.” And she’s like, “Okay.” And I probably have five minutes. So I quickly put this wig on and pulled her hairline out, and it was all bombshell and pretty. And she ran off and she went on TV. And then I was just like, oh my God, did it go okay?
And she came off, and she was on a break, and she was standing over the way with Blake or everything, the country guy. And she looked over at me, and she went, “Everyone likes your wig,” and then just looked off. And I was like, “I did it.” And that was the one time I’ve probably really felt—and I was like, I’m never doing that to myself again. What a fucking asshole, to like—I’ve worked for 30 years to learn my craft. If I go to a job and I do everything I know and have learned and it doesn’t work out, as long as I feel like I put my best foot forward, then that’s fine. But if I felt like my fear took over, no one wants someone that’s scared that’s going to do their hair. You can feel that. So if you’re looking at your hair and you’re like, “Do you think we should [inaudible],” they’re like, “Mm, not sure,” you feel that. So I think that’s the only time I’ve felt it and the last time felt it.
|Jodi Katz||We have two minutes left. Gail, I have a final question for you.|
|Jodi Katz||What is a passion that you have that people may not know about?|
|Gail Federici||Singing, probably. And they don’t know about it because I probably shouldn’t. But I love music and playing the drums, both of those things. And Chris plays the piano. So we should have a band together.|
|Chris Appleton||Yeah, we should. Yeah. I don’t know. Yes.|
|Jodi Katz||Has there ever been a jam session with Color Wow meetings?|
|Gail Federici||Do you know, to be honest with you, we had a party, and we had the karaoke. And we have so many incredible singers—two that were on American Idol, my daughter, who was signed to Interscope, and about three others that shocked us. I said, “We’ve got to do a Christmas album.” But Chris, you’ll have to be at the piano, and I’ll be at the drum set. Okay?|
|Chris Appleton||Okay. I’ll give you my piano fingers.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, Gail and Chris, thank you so much for joining me on Where Brains Meet Beauty. Before we all go, I just want to let everybody know that our next episodes here on Instagram Live will be live reported on September 14th. So we’ll take a little break for August for vacation. And that will be September 14th at 3:00 and 4:00 PM Eastern Time. First guest up that day is Brooke DeVard. She’s the brilliant host of the Naked Beauty podcast.|
|Jodi Katz||So I’m super excited to meet her. And then later that day, our last guest for the Artistry theme is Dr. Michelle Henry. She’s a board-certified dermatologist. I’m so excited to hear about how esthetics marry artistry in medicine. So that’ll be great. So I hope everybody tunes in.
And Chris and Gail, thank you so much for your time today. Your team will get those files from your devices to us so that we can format that proper podcast for everybody to listen to.
|Gail Federici||Perfect. Thank you so much.|
|Chris Appleton||Oh, I should’ve pressed record. Should I have pressed record?|
|Jodi Katz||I know you’re joking.|
|Gail Federici||He has to be.|
|Jodi Katz||This whole time, you’ve been telling me subliminally that you were gonna mess with me, because you mess with Gail all the time in your business with her.|
|Gail Federici||Totally. Totally.|
|Chris Appleton||They texted me this morning and said, “Don’t be late for the podcast,” and I responded, I said, “What podcast?” I don’t know what’s wrong with me. I just like to push people to their limits.|
|Jodi Katz||I’m grateful for your time and your generosity with your wisdom. Thank you so much.|
|Gail Federici||Thank you so much.|
|Chris Appleton||Thank you. Bye.|
|Jodi Katz||Bye, everybody.|