From Poland to New York City, Esthetician and Founder of her own skincare line, Joanna Czech has had quite the career journey. She has had over 35 years of experience in the industry and her treatments are a mix of timeless techniques and innovative technologies. To top it off, she has a very impressive list of notable celebrity clients.
Tune in to hear how her athletic background and competitive nature in Poland helped her get to the top of her game here in the United States, how she personally defines success, and how she makes time for the things that are important to her outside of work. Her bubbly persona, wisdom of the industry, and motivation is something that you do not want to miss out on hearing!
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|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Hi, Jodi. How are you?|
|Jodi Katz||It’s a skincare day at Where Brains Meet Beauty.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||So we’re in your happy place.|
|Jodi Katz||We are. Except after meeting my guest today over Instagram Live, I just really want to be in her hands. I want to be with her in real life, because I’m sure it’s an amazing experience to get a treatment from Joanna Czech.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Yeah, absolutely. I think Joanna Czech is like my kindred spirit. I loved when she started talking about horoscopes. I felt very seen by her.|
|Jodi Katz||She has a way with numbers, which she’ll talk with us about on the show. And she’s also fascinating because she’s truly an athlete. She’s incredibly—I think she uses her brain like an athlete in building her business, which is, to me, super fascinating. And I think I do too. I just didn’t realize it until I listened to her.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Yeah, absolutely. I feel like she had so many interesting stories to tell of her childhood and growing up. So she was definitely a very unique guest for us.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, I’m sure Joanna Czech is all over our listeners’ social media because she’s super famous. And let’s let everyone get into this episode.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Absolutely. So, welcome to episode 216. It’s my pleasure to introduce our guest, Joanna Czech, celebrity esthetician and founder of Joanna Czech Skin Care.|
|Jodi Katz||Welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty. Our guest today has over 35 years of experience beginning in Poland and built in New York City. Her treatments are a mix of timeless techniques from home and the most innovative technologies. She has a list of notable celebrity clients. I’m not going to read it, because I like to keep privacy, but somehow we found a list online.
And please welcome Joanna Czech, celebrity esthetician and founder of Joanna Czech Skin Care.
|Joanna Czech||Jodi, thanks for having me here. I am so thrilled to be here and share with you and with your viewers whatever I can share, whatever you guys are interested in.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, I’m grateful that you’re here, and I know your husband’s in the room, so maybe he’ll chime in with some of his own points of view, and that’s welcome as well. So I want to welcome you to Where Brains Meet Beauty with my favorite question, since we are a career journey show. When you were 11 years old, go back in time, what do you want to be when you grow up?|
|Joanna Czech||I wanted to be a doctor or a singer. I mean, 180 degrees. I don’t know what you call it. I am not sure where it came from. But based on how I used to play, that’s kind of what I heard from my parents or from my friends and so on. The way how I would play with my dolls, I was not interested in their makeup or doing their hair. I occasionally played with their clothing. But for sure, every doll was covered with bandages, with just—they were all kind of wounded. So I always needed to take care of them.
And you know, that could be coming from the family—my both parents survived the Second World War. That’s kind of growing up in Poland, where we had two channels, definitely 50 years ago. And you kind of saw only war movies because that’s only what was allowed. It’s a little getting too political. But I think this is the channel that I can be kind of myself. It’s not just about beauty. We’re kind of what made me. And then, so that was me thinking that I probably want to be a doctor because I really want to help and take care and so on. And I always wanted to be a godmother to every animal, cat or dog, that my friends had or my own. I needed to be a godmother. This I really—that was just so mandatory. And then—because that was about giving and caring, again.
And then singing, I think I had a certain level of talent that I had, my musical ear. I used to sing a lot with my late dad, many harmonies and so on. I used to go across the street to my friend’s house and play piano. And I was able to play music without the notes, just whatever I heard, just from my ear. And one day, I came back, and that was probably around 11:00 or 12:00, came back from my training, because I ended up being a young athlete during my school times. I found piano in the hallway. My dad bought me a piano. And then what I remember playing and singing to a teaspoon. So I guess that’s what my answer would be, why I wanted to be maybe a singer, maybe a doctor. That’s what I thought.
|Jodi Katz||I love these stories and walking down memory lane because I think they’re so telling. First of all, you wanted to be a doctor and a godparent to every animal because you wanted to take care of them, and that’s literally what you do in your that you’ve built, right? So you’re not doing that with scalpels, but you’re still doing it, right? You’re skin to skin, right, and what you do every day is so vital to making people feel good.
But before I move on, because I do have a ton of questions, you said you love animals. Do you have any pets today?
|Joanna Czech||If I would have a pet, my husband says that I would kill it, or our pet would die of obesity. I cannot say no to a begging eye of a dog. So my brother, who lives in San Francisco, he has three dogs. And I am just—I sneak it. I know it’s not healthy for them, but I just at least ask what they love to eat so I know I’m not going to poison them. But I just—it wouldn’t be fair to those animals. This, I probably could control. But in the current situation, since I—my friend is offering, I am getting a dog. Yes, Mary Grace, I am getting a dog. Yes, one day. And anyhow, it wouldn’t be fair to an animal at the moment. We travel so much for work that the dog would have to spend time with—in the hotels, in dog hotels or whatever, unless Mary Grace will take care of the dog. Yes.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, it sounds like Mary Grace will definitely take care of the dog. But it also sounds like you still are a godparent to animals in your life, right?|
|Joanna Czech||I am a godparent to animals, and I’m a godparent to children that they are not any blood, nieces and nephews. I’m Mama Jo. I remain Mama Jo.|
|Jodi Katz||Okay. So obviously, you’re super talented. You were playing piano by ear, which, you know, is like next-level musical talent. But you are also an accomplished athlete. And I really want to dive in deep here, because I find this fascinating. In your community, you were selected as a very young kid, age six, you told me, to run, right? Track and field.|
|Jodi Katz||And you told me this incredible story about what was driving you in these races. Can we go back to this story? And you can start from the beginning, and I’ll definitely want to layer in some questions.|
|Joanna Czech||This was such a deep story, Jodi, that you digged out from me. I don’t always—I don’t often repeat this story, but I remember that story. And by you asking that question, I just kind of returned to it. So yes, back in Poland, my time. So now everybody—that was 52 years old ago when I was chosen to be that athlete. I was six years old. They kind of ask you to run, jump, to do some gymnastics without any particular training. And based on how coordinated you are, that’s my understanding, that would be how they would choose us. So I would always end up, at least until through my 17th year of life, so from six to 17, 11 to 12 years of workouts in training and being this young athlete.
I was chosen that as a six-year-old without knowing anything was my talent, what I would be good in. I ended up being a 5k runner. And then actually, team sport was basketball. I am 160 centimeters, hello [?Varistuck], the city where I actually graduated my beauty institute. In [?Varistuck], there is a person joining us.
|Jodi Katz||That’s awesome.|
|Joanna Czech||Yes. So I was a great three-point shooter, whatever is the name in English. But that’s what I’ve done, those two sports. But the story that I was going to. Knowing—I was a hard-working child, and I think I’m even harder-working adult. Back when I was growing up and when I was training, that was not kind of as I find in United States. I don’t know if I should compare or not. Maybe there are all different levels of recognizing winners or losers or so on. Back in Poland, my times, if you did not win, you were a loser and nobody was giving you lollipop because you lost. You only were a winner. Loser was a loser and had to work harder. That’s not necessarily that you were yelled at, but that was definitely level of disappointment maybe from your coach or a trainer.
But whenever I knew—let’s say we are in competition between the schools. And then whoever wins a 5k in this level, age level between, let’s say, 12 and 14, those people are going to competition between the cities, then competition between regions, until you get to four countries. And those days, we could only compete between Russia, that was then USSR, Soviet Union, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic was called—I’m not sure, there were so many names throughout—and then Poland. So, four countries. So I was able to represent my country as well. That’s as high as I got between those four kind of international competitions.
But to get there, first you have to do your run, and there are certain ways of getting qualified to another level. So, when I knew that the first three runners from group of 16 would be qualified to representing city when we first were representing school only or so on. And I knew that I was strong enough. And I tried with the person. I became friends with the person. We all become really—I don’t know how much of a friends, but there is some kind of kinship between athletes. And I had respect that person and so on, just like I wanted them to be with me and go on with me and travel to another city and so on.
That’s not a nice word, but that was a certain level of manipulation, even that was a very positive manipulation, because I wanted this person to run before me because I knew if I’m second, I’m still going to get qualified to another level. I know it’s a very weird thing. I couldn’t explain to you exactly then psychology of it, and I’m not sure about now. But I’ve done it a few times. It was very risky, because that could have been very quick run of another person. But I’ve done it.
|Jodi Katz||What I love about this story, Joanna, is that you, number one, seemed to have enough confidence in yourself that you would be top three, right? And that you had this game within a game, right? So you’re at the track for the game. But you created—you called it a manipulation. I’d say it’s a game of saying, “I’m gonna let so-and-so hit first. I’ll hang back for second.” And that’s testing yourself, right, in a different way. So you’re playing two games at the same time.|
|Joanna Czech||Yes. I know. I was competing there, and then I was competing with myself. How exhausting is that? This is not—this is being Polish blonde or something, you know, just—|
|Jodi Katz||But you were doing it because you had this goal of the camaraderie that would come out of it, right?|
|Joanna Czech||Always. Always.|
|Jodi Katz||Which is so sweet. So the reason why I love this story is because I love talking to people and understanding, are you competitive? You were at the top of your game in skincare. Literally everybody knows your name. I said you’re all over my Instagram. Every time I open it up, you’re all over my Instagram, whether it’s you, your own content, or people talking about you and your products. So I’m curious, do you feel like you’re a competitive person out in this career world?|
|Joanna Czech||I am competitive with myself. I am my biggest competitor. I don’t enjoy any competition between others, even just by this previous manipulation and so on. That just kind of shows that I was not necessarily against those people, because I was taking a risk of someone else winning and me not getting there. I am competitive with myself. I can’t run anymore on treadmill because literally, if I go for—I will do treadmill 30 minutes. Oh my God, I got into 7k within 30 minutes. Let me finish and get to 10k, so I will be doing it longer if I’m already achieving this. And so then I am exhausted. Then I’m not liking it.
But that kind of expecting things from myself that remains. I have high expectations from myself. That makes me, at the moment, I see what makes me very hardworking, never stopping, looking for new technologies, looking, creating new treatments, thinking about new approaches, not necessarily based on reading another book, but just gathering 35 years of work.
So, never stopping. Just having so many ideas. And I never thought that I was creative person. But apparently I am. That science, it has nothing to do with being creative. Because again, as English as a third language or whatever language it is for me, I taught creativities about painting, drawing. And this now, this does not exist, because if I would draw the dog, you would think it’s a horse. So that’s almost like my cooking level. So that’s where I am. But I have expectations for myself and setting that high bar.
|Jodi Katz||So, Joanna, I usually save the next questions for last, but you really walked right into them, so I’m going to go for it. You talked about always advancing your skills and your knowledge and your ambition. So I really have been studying this idea of success and how we, as people in our industry, define success and how we get there. And I’ve described it for me as a seduction, because I have a fun job. I’m in a fun industry. So I want more and more of the success once I get a taste of reaching my goals. So I’m wondering how you define success today, and also if it is a seduction for you as well.|
|Joanna Czech||This is the hardest question for me because I really, really honestly don’t know definition of success. I wonder what would you—how would you define it, I wonder, or maybe our viewers or so on. I would imagine that that’s very interesting, how you put it together, seductive success, right? I mean, if whatever—success seems like something very positive, I would imagine. But I don’t know what success really means anymore. I don’t know. Maybe as a child, I would think that means you are very wealthy, you have tons of money. I don’t know. You have yacht or whatever. I would not say that that’s the case now, because all those situations that don’t create happiness, necessarily.
I really—this is a hard question, Jodi. I don’t know. I know that success could be seductive. I would imagine that, because it’s positive. But what is that success for me? I am so hardworking, I would imagine that I don’t know, maybe I would have a choice of working or not working. I’m not there yet. I can’t make decision that like, “Oh, today I will work, and tomorrow, I really don’t have to.” Also, the character of my profession, it’s service. So I always have somewhere deep there, always first taking care of the person, either literally physically taking care of them, or advising them. And my success is, you know, that’s what brings me to this answer. It’s seeing happy clients on daily basis.
So every, each single client is my success. And if they are happy, I’m even more successful. If I’m seeing the same face again, oh my God. That’s really a success. They came back. They returned. So I think that would be my success. And yes, that would be—that could be seductive. And seductive and attractive to me. And actually, but also would make me do work even harder. I don’t know if I can work harder, but yes, I would want to do even better.
|Jodi Katz||I think that’s the seduction in its essence, is it makes you want to work more, right?|
|Joanna Czech||Yes, like exactly. Yes. Yeah.|
|Jodi Katz||First of all, in my twenties, I thought success was all about money, for sure.|
|Jodi Katz||Even three years ago, I thought it was all about money. I’ve learned a lot since then. But this desire to continue to see happy clients, see clients bring their sisters or their brothers to you, right, and really let their—they trust you so much, they bring their whole family, right? That is a seduction because it makes you want to work more.|
|Jodi Katz||But I think the tension, for me at least, as an entrepreneur with a lot of ideas in my head—I have other podcast ideas and book ideas and whatnot—when to stop and take a break, right? When to lead my life and let my career ambitions take a little bit of a pause for a minute. And that to me is what I’ve been trying to explore through this show for the past five years and in my own entrepreneurial journey, because sometimes it feels too fun to stop, right?|
|Joanna Czech||Yes. It feels irresponsible to me, you know? Again, for my word, it’s not just—it’s just irresponsible, because to me, that probably I was always that athlete, and home where I come from, certain level of discipline and responsibility and so on that never left me. Never left me yet. At the moment literally sometimes physically feeling a little weaker. It just comes, or having a headache, or whatever it is. So that could stop me from time to time or make me slow down, but otherwise, it’s just—I still keep going on.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, how do you spend your time when you’re not working?|
|Joanna Czech||So, this is a good example. This is me considering not working. But you know what? I got prepared.|
|Jodi Katz||Right now?|
|Joanna Czech||Yes. But this could be kind of my form of time off. For instance, I did get prepared for this meeting. I got prepared for all of you. I had my hair done. I had my little makeup done. So actually, I was for a second on the other side. Someone was taking care of me. So that was—and person who took care of me actually makes me feel so relaxed and good about myself. That was a great treat. Random, because I got invited to this great show, and so here I am. Self-care. A little self-care.
But really, honestly more serious, though, try. I, for me, work out. So I’m so lucky this way that I was that little athlete always, because I never had—I didn’t jump into workout because it was cool or cute when I was 30 or 40 and it’s time really to get a little more into it, because it’s harder to be in shape without working out. I cannot have two bagels for breakfast anymore, and I used to. That was such a treat when I came to United States, especially to New York. And so, working out, I feel that I took care of myself and I took time for myself. I love my trainer.
Having actually because my husband and I, we both went through sicknesses. They were cancers and so on. We have a chef who takes care of us. So I don’t—I wouldn’t go that that’s a waste of time. I don’t use the time to go and shop for food. Someone else helps us with it. It, again, sounds very arrogant, almost, but it’s not, because I’m doing many other things, and I also create job for someone else. Just, I have my own—we have rental apartment. We have one car, but we choose to live healthy lifestyle because we both were sick. So that’s why we choose our yoga teachers, our trainers, our chef, because that’s what’s important for us. And so, this is definitely form of self-care. We try to squeeze massages wherever we are. In the country, different cities, or abroad, we arrange that wherever we are.
I love reading. Actually, I find luxurious when I can study some more. That’s luxury for me, that I can read and learn something new about importance of Vitamin D in our system, and what does it do, and what doesn’t. All those things. I love all the puzzles, as you know, because I mentioned that I play all those numbers in Sudokus. And so, that’s me taking care of myself. Yes.
And I try twice a year—I mean, pandemic messed up a little bit our routines and so on. But twice a year at least, we had holidays. Once it would be usually European trip to visit my parents, now just mom, and then visiting one more European country. We would split between those two, so it was Poland one more country as an addition. And then Christmastime usually with my brother on the West Coast, Petaluma, near San Francisco. And that’s where we would take 10 days, and that was our kind of thing. And occasionally, February or March, a little beach trip. Yes. So I love being near the water. So whenever I could, I’ve done it.
But now, after pandemic, we jumped into such a machine of almost trying to make up for lost time with work, with everything, that it’s a little chaotic in some situations. And also, that creates a little chaos in my head. It makes me a little exhausted. But, I mean, we are true here, we are open. So, talking to everyone that it’s not as great and as easy as it always looks. There is a lot behind the scenes.
|Jodi Katz||Well, I appreciate your honesty and transparency. I think it’s incredible that you and your husband focus on how to create health for yourselves, right, and rooting those decisions in your heart.|
|Joanna Czech||We had big scares. We did. Yeah.|
|Jodi Katz||And wonderful that you get to do it together, that you’re both here together.|
|Joanna Czech||Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.|
|Jodi Katz||So, for people who just tuned in, we’re on Where Brains Meet Beauty podcast talking with Joanna about her career and personal journey. And it’s impossible to separate career and personal journey, I mean, and unnecessary to, right? My kids watch me work, they’re part of my work, they come to the office with me, they have to do errands with me. I think it’s great that they’re kind of involved in the business.|
|Joanna Czech||Yes. I mean, I currently work with my husband. So sometimes because we are in the process of a growth of the company, so this is kind—growing pains. We almost have too many conversations, business conversations that I would like to have. I would love to talk about something else. Thank God we love doing the same things or we enjoy the same type of cinema or books, suspense and so on. So it’s just, thank goodness that we can catch on some other things. We are both jokers as well. So we crack some humor, because otherwise we would be talking about work. And that wouldn’t be healthy at all, so yeah.
And as I said, my work is extension of me. So I come to the room or I’m here right now with you. I just came, finished one Zoom of producing something new with production advisory team, and here I am with you. And who knows what’s happening after? And just, it’s so, so magic. But in the meantime, I’m at home. I’m on the beach, I’m at home. So it’s kind of extension of me. Yeah.
|Jodi Katz||I think it’s so beautiful to see the sense of serenity you have in your commitment to work. And I wonder if it’s because work is kind of like a sport, right? Growing these businesses is—there’s so much strategy. It’s physical. I mean, I know we’re not moving our bodies right now, but our brains are moving so fast, and our fingers are moving so fast. There is a sense of pushing your body. And it’s a game, in some sense.|
|Joanna Czech||It is. I need to be a psychologist to begin with. And I never knew that. When I studied in beauty institute, I had four semesters of psychology, and I did not understand. I was studying still Russian language. It was mandatory. That was another two years of Russian language. I was studying physics and just—but then I understood physics, machines and electricity and all of it incorporated with, I needed to know everything about all the megahertz and watts and so on. But psychology, I’m like, why? I will be taking care of skin. After seeing first client, I knew why I was learning psychology.
Dealing with another human being, I mean, you need to know. I have also a good gut feeling and kind of reading people quite quickly that’s helpful in my profession. But so, there is one part of it, directly taking care of clients and understand psychology of it. And then at the moment, my business, it’s already different. It’s not just direct communication with a client, which seems to be a vocation when I look at it now, where I arrived now, with financing department, with all those things that I don’t even—don’t want to understand, with all the technical department, and whoever runs our website and our ecommerce. And coming up with my own skincare line, the most nerve wracking thing, and having my baby there in the world. Like how is my baby going to do?
And yes, 35 years experience. But I just gave a birth, you know, the end of November. Still kind of breastfeeding it, you know? Just… so, it’s….
|Jodi Katz||And the challenges of growing a product business, it’s so different than service.|
|Joanna Czech||Completely different category, because as we know, there are many people that have nothing to do with skincare business or so on, they are creators of the skincare lines. So, the way how seriously I take it, you can only imagine by everything what I just told you about myself. And when I was going through the process of creation of it, this was kind of a little bit, I have to say, that part felt I guess like an orgasm. I was so excited. I don’t know. I was so excited. I was so excited choosing ingredients and how they mix together, and what they going to do, and hearing—I know this wasn’t what you wanted to hear, Jodi, yes. But that’s—|
|Jodi Katz||I mean, Joanna, you just gave us the sound bite that I was not expecting.|
|Joanna Czech||I mean, you can either run it or not. But that’s how, as scary—this is an example of how scary it is. But also, I keep going on. That’s kind of like with my sports. This is this example. And then I have trillions of skincare line existing right there. Why did I make a right choice? I just trust myself that touching and rubbing and observing skins and communicating with clients of different shapes and shades and colors and ages and whatever you want to, I want to say I’m certain I’ve made the right decision. What I put in the product. I even don’t know who is speaking now, because this is not Polish Catholic speaking at the moment. Like, oh my God, am I good? Am I good? Yes. I’ve made the right decision. I’ve made definitely solid decision, very responsible, everything what the skin needs from me observing those skins, how skins react to a certain ingredient. I have luxury of experimenting it on daily basis. So, that’s what helps me keep going on, and that’s what—I feel very solid about this decision, even though it’s very hard work.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, you are running a marathon right now. This is not a sprint, right? It’s not a 5k.|
|Joanna Czech||No. No, no, no.|
|Jodi Katz||And I think that that’s probably one of the reasons why some of these brands feel icky, because you can just smell that it’s short-term. It’s just for marketing. It’s not for skin health, right? It’s just a money grab. For someone who’s used to running marathons in business, as you are, I can understand why it’s frustrating to see the icky stuff.|
|Joanna Czech||My chemist, because apparently they are just 6% of skincare lines that they are born from zero. 94%, they are kind of the manufacturer’s lines, but created from zero, they are 6% out there. So my chemist said, “Joanna, I don’t know. I sent you 370 pages to choose ingredients. Whatever you’ve chosen, you are building handmade rosters.” I said, “That works for me.” Because that works for me.
We had investors interested in doing something earlier with us. “Oh, Joanna, we going to do all the money, 70% to us, 30% for you.” And I’m thinking, if I would have been—and it’s going to be—and they said, “We’re going to do this and that, and it’s going to be good enough.” And that’s when my husband said, “Don’t ever say good enough in front of Joanna.” And where we got, being then 56 when I started working on a skincare line, I’m thinking, maybe if I was 36, maybe I would go for good enough. But not as a 56 then. And then somebody said, “Joanna, you would not go for good enough, doesn’t matter, as a 16.” So, it’s just that’s—between custom-made bottles, and I chose the glass. I didn’t find bottle for myself in the work. You can imagine. Just like, I mean, really. So, I’m hard.
|Jodi Katz||Well, I have one more question for you. It’s going to feel like an oddball question, but I know this is important to you. Numbers and zodiac. You told me that you might not remember my name, but you’re going to remember my birth date and my sign.|
|Joanna Czech||I think you’re a Virgo.|
|Jodi Katz||That’s right.|
|Joanna Czech||Right. I knew when I said during the very first conversation that you will create that peace in me that I am organized because where I come from, and I’m organized because I’m a woman. I think we have certain level of responsibilities and so on. And also, this being organized because of being that athlete person and just where I come from. But also, it’s easier for me to remember birthdays or zodiac signs. I remember faces as well. But names, for some reason, especially foreign names, and even 33 years later, American names, I find them foreign, you know? Just very, very, very strange. But oh yes, Virgo gang. There are more Virgos here. I love Virgos. Because they create certain peace within me, yes.|
|Jodi Katz||I don’t know a lot about the definitions. I mean, I know organization is important to a Virgo. But that used to come out for me a lot as a kid. Like before I’d go to bed at night, I’d rearrange all my tchotchkes in my room and kind of come up with another scheme. And having that as I guess a meditative process before I would get into bed was important to me. But I don’t know. If you’d look at my desk right now, I don’t know that you’d believe it.|
|Joanna Czech||It looks quite organized there, what I see behind the scenes there.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, because I don’t have to touch that stuff. That hangs on the wall.|
|Jodi Katz||This is where I do my work right here, and it is just covered in sticky notes all over the place. And I’ll take the weekend and I’ll make some sense of them, but the pace of work during the workday and the work week, it’s just not possible to keep up. It’s just, write it down and deal with it later.|
|Joanna Czech||It gets hard. Being organized really creates certain peace within me, otherwise I feel anxious. If I’m not organized and not surrounded—if I have great book that I’m excited about to read, I need to clean my house first. How about that? Is that normal? That’s not completely normal. But I like that. That’s what—|
|Jodi Katz||You’re getting serenity from that.|
|Joanna Czech||That’s what I get from that kind of, that right environment, yes. Yeah.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, that concludes our interview portion of the show. I want to first thank you for your honest answers and for being a part of this career journey conversation.|
|Joanna Czech||Thank you so much. Thank you, Jodi.|
|Jodi Katz||For our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Joanna. Please subscribe to our series on your favorite podcast app. And for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast.|