It sounds simplistic to say we should all just do what we love. Well, duh! But it’s not that easy. Yet Lindsay McCormick was somehow able to shut out all the voices telling her to make money or seek security, and she just kept doing what she wanted to, changing focus and jobs a lot. To learn how one of those experiences became the springboard for her zero-waste personal care products company, make sure to tune in.
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Hi, Molly.|
|Molly D’Amato||Hi, Esperanza. How are you?|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||I’m doing okay. How are you?|
|Molly D’Amato||I’m doing well. I’m currently recovering from COVID, but it’s going—it’s finally going back to normal, which is great for me.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||I’m glad that you’re feeling better.|
|Molly D’Amato||Thank you.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||I remember being very worried about you last week.|
|Molly D’Amato||Yeah. I was like, not expecting it to take me out as much as it did.|
|Molly D’Amato||But I guess that’s what was in the cards for me. How are you doing?|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||I’m doing all right. I’m actually feeling a little bit under the weather nowadays, but I’m pushing through. And I’m going to get tested again soon.|
|Molly D’Amato||Got to love the spring. We have some exciting stuff happening right now.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||So, Jodi’s book, Facing the Seduction of Success, came out on June 7th. It’s all about career journey. And if you’ve been listening to this podcast for a while, then you’re going to recognize a lot of the people—|
|Molly D’Amato||Yeah, definitely.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||… from this show in the book.|
|Molly D’Amato||Yeah. There’s amazing little—so many good tips. I feel like they’re just so helpful.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Yeah, absolutely. I think, as somebody being early in my career journey right now, Jodi feels like a wise mentor figure, like taking my hand—|
|Molly D’Amato||Oh my gosh, yes.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||… and introducing me to all of these new people who have been kicking ass at their job for years.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||So, it’s like the perfect gift to give to somebody who’s maybe graduating college around this time. I think the best part, too, is even if the person that you want to give this book to isn’t in the beauty industry, the tips are universal.|
|Molly D’Amato||Oh, yes. Absolutely.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Anybody who wants to do well at work is going to benefit from reading it. So, yeah. I hope that you guys check it out on Amazon. Again, it’s Facing the Seduction of Success.|
|Molly D’Amato||For sure.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Yeah. It’s available now! So, let’s introduce our guest for today. Today we’ve got Lindsay McCormick, the founder and CEO of Bite.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||I know that you are using—|
|Molly D’Amato||Which I’m obsessed with.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Yeah, I know. You were using some Bite products. How did you like it?|
|Molly D’Amato||Oh my gosh, I love them. I got some product to shoot content with, but I’m also like, obviously I need to try it. Duh.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Of course.|
|Molly D’Amato||And the toothpaste bites are so fun! I love the idea behind it, obviously. I think it’s so important to be sustainable. But it’s also kind of just like more fun than just putting on regular toothpaste. So, you get to chew up a little pellet, I guess. It’s like a little candy.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||A little pellet?!|
|Molly D’Amato||Honestly, it tastes so good too that I’m like—I have to consciously be like, “Girl, don’t eat this. It’s not food. It’s not like, a mint.” Because they’re minty and they—no, but for real. It’s so funny.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||Yeah, no. Lindsay was super cool. I feel like she was another one of those very spontaneous people who’s just like, “I’m going to follow my heart, and I’m going to do what I want.” And yeah, it was so great meeting her. I loved learning about her travels around the world.|
|Molly D’Amato||Me too.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||This is something that is—yeah, this is exclusive to our YouTube livestream. So, if you want to learn about how Lindsay traveled the world for $30 a day, you should definitely check out our YouTube stream. But in this episode, you’re going to learn a lot about her career journey.|
|Molly D’Amato||That is so cool.|
|Esperanza Rosenbaum||All right, guys. So, Molly, why don’t we get into the episode?|
|Molly D’Amato||Yeah. Let’s cut to the chase and get in.|
|Jodi Katz||Hello, Where Brains Meet Beauty fans. Thank you for tuning in. This is our 209th episode, so that’s pretty cool. A big number to say, and I’m really grateful. So now, I’m super excited to introduce you to the third guest of our sustainability theme. Her company is saving the world by reinventing our everyday routines. Please welcome Lindsay McCormick. She’s the founder and CEO of Bite.|
|Lindsay McCormick||Thanks so much for having me, Jodi. I’m super excited about today.|
|Jodi Katz||Lindsay, it’s so great to see you. I loved talking to you in our previous conversation, and it’s awesome to see your face.|
|Lindsay McCormick||Nice to see you too.|
|Jodi Katz||So, we know this is a career journey show, and we have so much fun stuff to talk about in terms of your career journey and how you got here. But before we do that, I have to give you a shout out for your voicemail on your phone number. So, when I called your number, I received a voicemail saying, “This is Lindsay. I’m not going to check this voicemail, so don’t leave me one. And I’m not going to answer numbers that I don’t recognize the number. So, if we’re supposed to have a call, text me.” And I think it’s genius. So, I really want to applaud you on this amazing voicemail.|
|Lindsay McCormick||Thanks. I think it’s very important to be very protective of your time, especially, you know, we’re running our own businesses. It’s so easy to just kind of lose track in like, the yeses and the kind of doing all these different things where I just feel like, as long as I’m upfront and I put my boundaries out pretty strongly, I can get everything done I need to during the day, for the most part. So, yeah. That’s what that is.|
|Jodi Katz||I’m going to ring the bell for this, because it’s that amazing. [Bell rings] And what gave you the inspiration for just putting this out there that this is the way you’re living your life and managing outreach?|
|Lindsay McCormick||You know, I think it’s a necessity, actually. Because for me, there’s so many people who are calling all the time, whether it’s spam—so many times, your number gets sold to those aggregators where they just push it out, or other businesses, like applications that want to work with my business. And somehow they get my number, and then they’re calling. And I want to be able to spend my time where I need to, right, whether that’s with the team or working. And just constantly thinking, “Oh, I need to check a voicemail,” or “Oh, I need to get back to this person” is just—it was taking too much mental bandwidth. And so, I mean, text messages are amazing and we all have email. And I want it in writing anyway. I’m not going to check the voicemail. I’m just not.
And so, I leave my voice mailbox full. It’s purposely full. And if someone needs me, if it’s a friend or something, they have a cell phone, so they can text me. And if it’s a business person, if it’s another app or a company that wants to work with us, they’ll text me as well. And then I can know I can get back to them if I want to. I try to be really intentional on where my time is going, just because there are so many demands that you’re constantly getting pulled in so many different directions all the time. I just saw it as an easy win and a thing to do.
And it’s funny, I actually had just emailed another female founder of mine that I just became friends with from a conference last week. And when I sent her an email, because she was like, “Yeah, I’m happy to make an intro to you” to this company that I wanted to work with. She was like, “Just shoot me an email with a quick blurb, and then I’ll forward it over.” And when I emailed her, her email bounced back with an auto respond saying, “Hi, this is Blank. I’m wanting to spend more face time with my team. Just know I read every single email, and if it’s business critical, I’ll get back to you, and if not, I’ll get back to you when I can.” And I was like, oh my God, that’s so brilliant. So, I’m actually probably going to do that to my email too, because there’s so much inbound all the time that it just—I want people to know, I see it, I hear it, I know. And if I want to get back to you, I will. So yeah, I think that’s—I’m actually going to be doing that to my email as well, so.
|Jodi Katz||I actually gave you a shout out today on Instagram because I was so inspired by your voicemail, and it reminded me of another podcast guest of ours, Courtney—she’s a co-founder of ShearShare. And her email is exactly how you described. I send her a message, I immediately get a return bounce email saying—hers actually says, “I check my email twice a day, so I will get to your email,” right? So, she sets time in her calendar for checking email, which is amazing. And then if they’re emergencies, she lists out different people in different departments of her company that you can reach out to. But I just love it. It made me so happy. I’m so proud of you for doing it and taking that initiative, and I hope more people get inspired to find ways to manage their time. It’s a great hack.
Okay. Well, let’s move on to my favorite question of the show, since we are always talking about career and journey. Let’s go back in time, Lindsay, to your 11-year-old self. What do you want to be when you grow up?
|Lindsay McCormick||Oh, my 11-year-old self. Okay. So, I always wanted to be everything. I wanted to be an astronaut, an archaeologist, an FBI agent. I literally—I wanted to do all of the things, and it was a new thing every week. And I think that’s actually kind of interesting, because that’s even after college—and throughout high school and college and after college, I always had a bunch of different jobs, whatever I thought I was curious about, I thought would be interesting to learn, to know how to do, I would want to get a job in it. And so, yeah, I never had any major career ambitions as a kid, but I just wanted to do all of the things. I wanted to do them all.|
|Jodi Katz||And were the people around you encouraging of that?|
|Lindsay McCormick||Yeah. So, my parents were always really, really encouraging and my family was always really encouraging of just kind of following your happiness and just kind of understanding that if you follow what you’re interested in and what you’re good at, your success will eventually follow. And so, I think that was something that they were always—they were like, “If you want to go to space camp, start saving up for space camp. And if you want to go and do this,” you know. So, they were very encouraging, but then also were like, “If you want to do these things, you have to put the work in to do it, so, yeah.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, what was your first job that you actually got paid for?|
|Lindsay McCormick||So, my first job, I was an elf at the mall. I was with the straight-up hat and everything. Yeah. I was an elf at the mall in Tysons Corner. And it was where you can go and you can bring the kids to go take a photo with Santa. I was the one either trying to distract the kids and not let them cry, or actually taking the photos. And it was a really fun first job. I was saving up for my car, my first car, so I liked it a lot.|
|Jodi Katz||And were you good at this job?|
|Lindsay McCormick||Yeah, I was good at this job. I have a lot of patience and a sense of humor about things. And I feel like some—it’s like, with screaming kids who are all dressed up and terrified of Santa, and you just have to have a certain type of personality for that. And it definitely suited my personality, that’s for sure.|
|Jodi Katz||And were you able to save up for that car?|
|Lindsay McCormick||I was. I was. Not just from that job. I had that job. That was a seasonal, that was my winter job, because I was 15, so I had a work permit, right? Do you remember, you had to have work permits or whatever? So I was 15. I had a work permit. That was one of the ones that would let me do it. And then I got a job at the Rainforest Cafe in the same mall. I was in their retail store. Which was also very much me. I was like, if I’m going to be anywhere, I want to be where they’re spouting rainforest facts all day. So, I got a job in the Rainforest Cafe in the retail store, at that little store that they have when you walk through the restaurant.|
|Jodi Katz||That’s so awesome. Okay. So, let’s skip ahead a little bit in your career. You told me that you’ve been a surfing instructor, a snowboard instructor, you’ve worked at Starbucks. How did you make these decisions? What was your guiding force?|
|Lindsay McCormick||Oh my gosh. Yeah, I’ve had so many, so many random jobs. And when I moved to LA, I was an extra through LA Casting. I was a bartender and a server. For me, it was always—I just did jobs that seemed interesting, with good people that I felt like could be helpful. Honestly, I got a job at Starbucks because I loved coffee and I wanted to learn how to make all their drinks. And I was like, well, I might as well just get paid to learn how to do this. And it was amazing. All throughout college, I bought an espresso machine, and I was making Starbucks-quality drinks on a college budget price. And I think for me, it was just, what do I think is interesting and what will help pay the bills? Obviously, snowboard instructor, surf instructor, I did that right out of college. Wasn’t making much money at all. I mean, I think there is money to be made in snow and surf sports, but I was not making a lot of it. But I loved it, you know? Every day, I was outside, and every day, I was doing what I liked to do. And so, it was a really great job for me at the time, so. And it was the same kind of patience that I had from working with kids when I was taking photos of them when I was 15, you know, with Santa.|
|Jodi Katz||When I was finishing up school, I felt this social society pressure to have a cool job. And I ended up working at a big advertising agency in New York City in a very junior role. But I thought it had to be that way, right? My peers were getting jobs at investment banks or biotech companies and all this stuff. So, I didn’t really have, I guess—feel grounded enough in what my passions where or what my vision for myself was. I just sort of followed along on that train. Did you feel those pressures when you were making these decisions that maybe weren’t—it wasn’t a money focus, it was just the joy focus?|
|Lindsay McCormick||So, luckily, honestly, not really. They were, of course, there, but I chose not to listen to them, right? So, I drove the same dented up Honda Civic that I bought when I was 16 years old. I drove that all the way until I was 27 years old. But I had no car payment, and I didn’t care. And it was totally—I have always very much been about life design and kind of following your happiness more than following anything else. But I will say, on my 29th birthday, I got a job, and this is kind of fast-forwarding a little bit, but I got a job as an assistant at a production company, a TV production company. And I was making $600 a week. I was living in a friend’s guest room. And I remember talking to my friends who I grew up with. I lived right outside of Northern Virginia, or I lived in Northern Virginia right outside DC. And they were like, “Yeah, you know, I think I’m going to be able to make my goal to make six figures by the time I’m 30.” And I’m sitting here being like, “Oh my God, I’m making $600 a week, and I don’t have health insurance.”
But for me, it wasn’t the—I didn’t really feel pressured. I just felt like, wow, what different life choices. Because I also noticed, a lot of my friends who were having those really high-paying jobs, they also had really expensive lifestyle choices that they were making. They lived in expensive apartments, they drove nicer cars, they went to the gym, and they didn’t really necessarily seem happier than I was, living in a friend’s guest room, driving a POS car. And I was just kind of like, I think we’re just making two different choices, but I don’t think either of them are right or wrong. One of them is definitely more valued by society, I feel like, in general. But I didn’t really feel the pressure to do that. It was just kind of like, oh, it looks like there’s another option that I’m choosing not to take. But yeah, I was aware of it, but didn’t necessarily feel pressured.
|Jodi Katz||I love that you were able to make the other choice, because I think it’s what many of us actually want in our heart, right? I’m in my 40s now. My friends, they all want to, maybe if they are good at snowboarding, they want to go do this for a living, right? So, they kind of want to go back in time a little bit and pick something that’s not so focused on a certain path that’s kind of preset and predetermined, but just follow their joy. So, it’s amazing that you, at such a young age, made that decision and stuck to it.|
|Lindsay McCormick||Thanks. I mean, it wasn’t easy. I definitely was very stressed out the entire time. But it was—I think it was—it’s all about choices, right? I don’t think any choice is easy or hard, or right or wrong. It’s just kind of making the choice, then being like, okay, how do I make the best of the choice that I made, you know? And so, and then kind of being like, okay, so if this is what this is… And so, yeah, I think that there was definitely—man, your 20s are a wild time. 20s, you’re just trying to figure things out, you know? And there are so many different things.
Especially with social media, I feel like we were kind of the first generation to live through your 20s seeing what everybody, all of your peers are doing. And I think that that was something that I wonder if we’ll look back and see, especially as these upcoming Gen-Z, who notably will not work jobs that they don’t like and do these things. It’s like, is it because they can see all these other options now kind of turning out for people who are following their passions or following it? I don’t know. I think it’s a really interesting social experiment that we’re all participating in every day.
|Jodi Katz||You make such a good point. I never thought about it that away, Lindsay, right? When I was in college and graduating, all I knew was the jobs that I’d seen on TV, right, in TV shows and movies, or the types of jobs people were recruiting on my campus for. And my campus was people going into engineering and biotech and investment banking. Nothing that I was interested in. So, I had a really, really narrow view of what my possibilities are. And then, yeah, fast-forward to the young people on my team now. They see so many different types of jobs, right, from candle-making to banking to whatever. And that gives them more choices, I think more—and control over their destiny.|
|Lindsay McCormick||Yeah. I totally agree. And even just more access to how to be an entrepreneur, right? If you want to have your own candle-making business, you can find out how to make candles from the internet, then how to build a business from the internet, then even the nuts and bolts of how do you start an LLC and how do you—it’s literally all here, and it’s never been easier to see it and to do it and to follow kind of that step by step. Not saying it’ll work out, right? There’s always a matter of grit and luck to every single business. But at least it’s there, and it’s like, you can’t be what you can’t see. And I think right now, people can see a variety of options for them, no matter what their passions are.|
|Jodi Katz||Well, thank you for that segue, because I want to actually talk about how the tide turned. And the tide is a pun here on your career choices. So, you told me that you had a change of heart about what you were doing when you were working as a surf instructor and noticing plastic in the ocean with you. So, tell us a little bit about that time in your life.|
|Lindsay McCormick||Yeah. So, I was in my late 20s, and I was a surf instructor in the summer and snowboard instructor in the winter. And I loved it. I was here in Malibu and then up in Big Bear, which they’re an hour-and-a-half away from each other. But every day, I was noticing over those four years, more and more plastic washing up on my board when I was out in the ocean in Malibu. And then when you’re working in the snow sports industry, just so much of the conversation was around, is our sport going to be around in 10, 20 years with climate change, with global warming? And so, it started really getting it on my radar. I’d always been passionate about the planet. I’m a long-time vegetarian. Actually been a vegan for a very long time at this point as well. And so, it had always been something that was really important to me. But then living it and seeing it every day, I was like, okay, I really want to be able to help with this more than organizing a beach cleanup with my friends. And so, what can I do?
And so, I wanted to get into documentaries, actually. I had seen—this was back—oh man, it was 10 years ago or something. Blackfish had come out, which is the documentary on the killer whale, that it’s called Tilikum? Oh my God, I forgot the name. But it was a killer whale. And basically, that documentary, between that and The Cove, really changed the conversation for marine mammals in general. And now we look like 10, 15 years later, and there are so many different laws that are there to protect them. But that all really started from those documentaries. And there’s just so many documentaries when you look at the quiet change that they make once people start really listening.
And so, I wanted to be part of that. And I was like, I would love to be able to work on nature documentaries, conservation documentaries, and try to get the word out about this. But I didn’t know anything about TV or anything like that. So, I got a job as an assistant at a television production company, figuring I would build up my tool belt in unscripted, which is basically reality TV. I was working on the show House Hunters eventually, to kind of of figure out how do I—how do you piece together and puzzle piece together stories and make things compelling so I can then eventually talk about the nature, conservation and things like that.
So, that was kind of the hard left turn of going from snow and surf sports to TV. And it was during my time on the TV shows, like traveling all the time for work, that I came up with the idea for Bite. So, it was a long, twisted journey that all kind of came together in the end.
|Jodi Katz||So, how did traveling for the show inspire Bite as a business idea?|
|Lindsay McCormick||Okay. So, when you travel for a show, and I’m sure for you too when you’re traveling for work, you only travel—I was only traveling with carry-on only, because I’d only be in a place for a few days. And so, I would refill my shampoo, my conditioner, my sunscreen. But I couldn’t—I was throwing out a little toothpaste tube after every shoot, right? Because they’re so small and use so much so fast. And I was like, this seems so wasteful, and I want to find a solve for that. So, I started looking through alternatives. There were some tablets on the market, but they were in plastic, and I didn’t like how they tasted, and they didn’t have great ingredients. And then there were some tooth powders, but they were so messy, and they were a disaster. And I was like, I can’t do any of this.
So I was like, okay, I think—and then through that, I learned about all of the ingredients that are in most commercial toothpaste that I hadn’t even been thinking about, and the fact that most had actually been tested on animals as well. So, as a longtime vegetarian and vegan, that was a problem for me. And so, it was like, okay, I feel like I just need to redo this from the ground up. And I’ll make these tablets for me to use and maybe some of my friends that are TV producers who also care about the planet. And that’s how it started. So, I literally—I bought a tabletting machine. I spent time taking open source online chemistry classes and just learning as much as I could talking to dentists, dental hygienists, until I finally came up with the formula. It’s actually very similar to what we use today. And I was pressing out these tablets in my living room.
|Jodi Katz||I love this story. So, it’s been just about four years of running Bite. And when you think about that, that’s like your college career, right? You had your freshman year, your sophomore year, your junior year, and now I guess you’re in your senior year. And then there’ll be the graduate school or business school version of this business and growing it. So, four years probably feels like a million years sometimes and also like a blip simultaneously.|
|Lindsay McCormick||Yeah. That’s so funny that you say that because the first thing that I just thought about that when you were like, “It’s your senior year,” I’m like, oh, I remember in high school, I had the worst case of senioritis. I was just like, out. I don’t necessarily feel like that now. But oh, it makes sense. You start being like, all right, what’s going on? And same thing with college. College, by the fourth year, I was like, “Man, this town feels small.” Yeah. So, it’s funny. Yeah, I’m in my senior year, for sure.|
|Jodi Katz||Right. And I think what that means, and maybe you don’t have senioritis now, but you’ve learned to do the same thing over and over again, and get it to a place where it’s optimized and working. And what I think happens with someone like you who’s ambitious and highly motivated and mission-driven is that your brain opens up to more ideas of how to move this idea forward, right? So, the senioritis was, I want more, I want different, I want a different town, different people. But here in your business, it just means like, I’m going to invent new ways to do and to reach my goals, right? It just opens your brain up to having more space.
So, it’s a great segue into this idea of growing the business that I’ve been thinking about a lot. And just to plug my book that I’m launching in June, it’s a book that’s a summary of the wisdom that I’ve learned on my podcast. And it’s all about the topic of success being seductive. And I know it’s a really disarming word in business, but it’s just always made so much sense to me. From the minute where I reached one of my goals, even if it’s tiny, I get this little taste in my mouth, and I wanted more. And it’s just like a seduction, right? My business, this abstraction, is calling to me, right, at all hours, popping great ideas in my mind in the middle of the night, or encouraging me to send that email, or go be bold, or whatever it is. So, I’m so curious about the past four years for you. Has growing this business been seductive for you?
|Lindsay McCormick||That’s such a good question. I mean, it’s so interesting how that happens, where it’s like, you start off, and you’re like, “If I just make $10,000, I can’t believe,” and then it’s like $100,000. Then you’re like, $10 million! And that’s still not enough. I need more revenue! And so, it’s like, you really do start wanting more. And on one hand, I think that that’s so necessary. That’s literally leveling up, right? It’s like, you’re leveling up, you’re getting better and better and better. That is the goal that you have. I like to equate a lot of the stuff that I do to my time as a surf and snowboard instructor, where it’s like, you want to just constantly be getting better. And you fall, and you hurt, but you get back up again and you try, and you go and you go and you go. You’re leveling up.
But at the same point, it’s very true, where there’s a quote that I love. It’s from an author called Ryan Holiday. And he has a newsletter called the Daily Stoic, which I absolutely love, and also a variety of books, all on stoicism. But one of the things that he says in his podcast is that if you don’t know what you’re after, the default is always more. And I think that’s something that I always really try to keep counterbalanced to the leveling up mindset, right? Because there’s a really—I think that the growth at all costs mentality is incredibly unhealthy. I just—I don’t think that’s a good thing for businesses to do, and I don’t think it’s a good thing for people to do.
But I do think that there is a really tough line between wanting to level up and be the best version of yourself and the best version of your company, and winning, and all of that fun stuff. It’s fun, right? It’s a game, and it’s really fun to figure out and play. And then understanding that to be happy with what you have and to be thankful with what you have, and if you don’t know what you’re—yeah, if you don’t know what you’re after, the default just comes more, and you just want more and more and more. And then you’re somebody else who’s insatiable, and whether or not you’re happy… And I just think you can get really caught up.
So, those are two thoughts that I try to always kind of hold in my head, and let them kind of balance each other out, you know? Sometimes it’s more on one side than the other. It’s not always a perfect scale. But I do think that they both need to have the same weight, whether or not, maybe, you tilt one way or the other for a certain amount of time.
|Jodi Katz||You just mentioned something that’s so interesting, and it never occurred to me before, even through writing the book. So, you talked about it being fun. It’s a fun game to play, right? What can I do today? How can I reach my goals today? How can I inspire people today? And maybe that’s why this theme comes up so much on the show, is because this whole show is about meeting people in beauty and wellness. And I guess if you’re in this industry, you like it, right? You’re here for a reason. So, there is so much joy and passion built into all of these professionals’ careers and career journey that that’s the tension, right? It’s this joy and passion on one side, and the fun of it, with the, “Oh, this is hard, this is challenging. It requires a lot of work,” right?
And that’s where the seduction happens, right? I guess I wouldn’t be seduced by my business if I thought it was a bore, right? But it’s because it’s fun, because I feel engaged, and I’m working new muscles in my brain and whatnot. That’s the reason why the seduction can happen. I guess that’s also—so it’s like there’s a great side to the seduction, an amazing side, and there’s the challenging side, which is, well, how do I make times for things outside of my work, right, because I am a whole human, right? I’m not just a one-dimensional human.
|Lindsay McCormick||Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And that’s, I think, especially that love is so important. It’s literally flow, right? When I’m at my best with my business, I’m in flow. And that is the best feeling in the entire world. And the fact that we get paid to do this, and we’re able to build a business in this, and to be able to do this is just—it’s amazing. It’s the best thing in the entire world. But I think it’s also just, yeah, really important to understand that you do need to be able to find flow in other places, whether that’s—for me, I like to go rock climbing, and I like to go on a hike, and I like to hang out with my dog, who keeps wandering around my apartment, if you guys see him. His name’s Nemo. He’s very sweet. And I like to—there are so many other things that I like to do. And I think that it’s kind of like figuring out where you can tap into flow that’s not just necessarily work, right? Because then it’s like you’re not really totally living holistically.
But I think it’s also really important to remember how incredibly lucky we are that we can tap into flow at our jobs. And that’s something that I try to always remind myself. Even when things get really hard or things get really frustrating or overwhelming or exhausting, it’s just such a privilege to be able to kind of have a job where I can find flow. Because I think that that’s something that’s really special, you know?
|Jodi Katz||Oh my gosh, I totally agree. I’ve been in the beauty/wellness space for so long now. I mean, maybe it’s like 20-something years. And before that, it was traditional advertising. So that, to me, feels like pop culture in a lot ways. And I think that’s the power of the messages that you’re sharing today and my other guests have shared before, is like, finding something that you love what you do, even if it’s a hard day—I’m not saying every day is easy. You don’t love every single moment.
But overall, if you’re like, “Wow, this is cool. This is a fun place to be,” then you’re probably going to get caught up in the seduction because it’s like a playground, right? The kids don’t want to leave the playground, right? They scream and kick when their parents say it’s time to leave the playground, right? So, that’s what’s happening here in our work is like, “Well, I’ll just keep sending more emails because this is fun, and people are responding. And I’ll respond to more DMs or whatever it is, right, because this is fun.”
|Lindsay McCormick||Mm-hmm. And you get those little dopamine hits of success, right? You know what I’m saying? Where it’s like, oh—and actually, when you say that, too, it’s like—and this is the variable. The reason that I feel like it’s seductive, right, which you can also would say is addictive, is that it’s variable. It’s kind of like gambling, right? It’s like, not everything you do is going to be a hit. And if it was, it would be boring, right? So, it’s kind of like if I keep responding to these DMs, who am I going to meet? What partnership am I going to be able to spring from this? And those are the types of things. I mean, that’s exactly like what a fricking slot machine is, where it’s kind of like—I don’t know, when it’s going to pay out? I don’t know, but keep doing it, keep doing it, you know?
So, I try to always kind of—I said about it before with the social media thing, I just—I think there’s so many—brain psychology is just so interesting. And when you actually just take a step back, we’re all operating off the same or similar chemistry, right? And so, different things are happening to different people, whether it’s in their jobs or hobbies or gambling, but it’s all the same payoff, right? It’s serotonin, dopamine, like what’s happening in your brain that’s making this happen. So, yeah, I don’t know. That’s super esoteric, but I think that stuff’s fascinating.
|Jodi Katz||Well, I love ending on that note, Lindsay, because now I’m seeing—I never thought of myself as a risk taker, but I’m totally going to just throw money in that slot machine every single day, right? Try it, try it, try it, and throw money in it, and pull the handle and see what happens. So, Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with our listeners today.|
|Lindsay McCormick||Of course. Thanks so much for having me. This was great.|
|Jodi Katz||And please subscribe to our series on your favorite podcast app. And for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast.|