Episode 207: Shannon Goldberg, Founder and CEO of Izzy Zero Waste Beauty

05.11.2022

Summary

Leading a balanced life looks a little different for everyone, but for Shannon Goldberg, Founder and CEO of Izzy Zero Waste Beauty, balance looks like making sure your cup has enough water for you to drink from. An empty cup is just as useless as working a job you hate. She’s living out her passions, while also working hard at creating more sustainable options for beauty brands — all while have fun along the way!

Transcript

Esperanza Rosenbaum	Hey, guys!
Molly D’Amato	How are you?
Esperanza Rosenbaum	I’m doing well. The sun is shining. It’s not raining, so I’m really excited.
Molly D’Amato	I know! But I’m grateful for the April rain, because the flowers are coming out.
Esperanza Rosenbaum	I know. I realize like, how many of the trees have bloomed all of a sudden.
Molly D’Amato	Yeah.
Esperanza Rosenbaum	And, although my allergies don’t like it, my eyes do.
Molly D’Amato	Totally. Yeah.
Esperanza Rosenbaum	This week on the podcast, we have Shannon Goldberg, who is the founder of Izzy Zero Waste Beauty. And I loved hearing from her. As a fellow FIT alum, it was so cool to hear from her and how she started a company. And like, it’s such a cool company, too.
Molly D’Amato	Yeah. I think the idea of decreasing waste so significantly in the beauty industry is so important.
Esperanza Rosenbaum	Totally.
Molly D’Amato	And I’m really excited that we’re having such a focus on sustainability this quarter.
Esperanza Rosenbaum	Yeah.
Molly D’Amato	And I think Shannon is the perfect guest to get that started with.
Esperanza Rosenbaum	Yeah, absolutely. I think like, obviously, the makeup industry is one of like, the most not environmentally conscious at all, because so much of it is disposable.
Molly D’Amato	Yeah.
Esperanza Rosenbaum	So I think brands like Izzy Zero Waste Beauty are doing such a good job at helping the industry move into a better direction.
Molly D’Amato	And, I mean, apart from the sustainability aspect too, it was so interesting hearing about her journey, you know, from being a dancer to being a student at FIT, and then, you know, working for various skincare brands.
Esperanza Rosenbaum	Yeah!
Molly D’Amato	And then moving to Tampa, and then like, COVID happening. And then just deciding to like, get this brand started.
Esperanza Rosenbaum	Yeah. It’s like, her journey is so wild. I’m not going to spoil it, but you need to listen because she got to work with maybe one of the most well-known pop stars on the entire planet in her makeup line. And it’s not like anybody you would think of, I don’t think. And when I was hearing her talk about that, I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah, I never would’ve—just never in my wildest dreams to interact with that person. But you gotta listen to find it out.
Molly D’Amato	Absolutely. Oh, I’m so tempted to spoil it.
Esperanza Rosenbaum	I know!
Molly D’Amato	I just want to bust out into song!
Esperanza Rosenbaum	I know! But yeah, so I think we should just jump into it, because it’s a really great episode.
Molly D’Amato	Yeah. Let’s jump in.
Jodi Katz	Hey, everybody. Thank you, podcast fans, for tuning in. Welcome to our fifth season of Where Brains Meet Beauty Podcast. I’m very excited about our second quarter theme here at the show. The theme is sustainability. And this is a passion of mine. I was always that kid, that 10-year-old who was chasing after people and asking them to recycle their tin cans and their aluminum cans and their paper. And where better to try to impact change in consumer goods than in the beauty industry? We consume a lot of stuff, right? So, I’m excited to bring you guests this quarter that are working hard to find a way to do better. So, this guest today, I’m very excited about. She is Shannon Goldberg, the founder and CEO of Izzy Zero Waste Beauty. Hi, Shannon.
Shannon Goldberg	What’s up, Jodi? How are you?
Jodi Katz	Thank you so much for coming to the show, and welcome.
Shannon Goldberg	Thank you so much. Excited to be here.
Jodi Katz	Well, this is a really kind of fun moment, because you and I first met each other, I guess it was like right at the beginning of the COVID crisis.
Shannon Goldberg	Yes.
Jodi Katz	And we had chatted by phone. And I think LinkedIn brought us together. So, I want to go back to that conversation because it’s super interesting. But I first have to ask our most important podcast question. Since we’re a career journey show, Shannon, I like to go all the way back to the beginning. So, channel your 10-year-old self. What do you want to be when you grow up?
Shannon Goldberg	Aww. I love that. Okay. So, I wanted to be a ballerina in New York City, or a Rockette. It was, you know, a tough call. And spent all of my early years dancing in the studio, super committed. And that was really my plan for the longest time. And then, unfortunately, when I was 18, right before I was going to New York, got in a bad car accident and broke my back, my collarbone, lost my range of motion, everything. So dancing sort of, you know, fell out of the picture pretty abruptly. And for whatever reason, I applied to the Fashion Institute of Technology in New York as a plan B. And lo and behold, I just—I fell in complete love with that world, especially in New York City, the heart of all things fashion and glamour and beauty, and knew early on, even upon attending FIT, that I definitely wanted to get into their cosmetic and fragrance program for my bachelor degree. So, that’s exactly what I did. And back in those days, you had to interview to get into that program. And it was like, thousands of applicants, and only 23 would be picked, and I was one of them. I was so excited. I was like, “I am gonna do this! I love makeup. I love cosmetics. It’s so much fun.” And really, that was my—that was the beginning of it all. And FIT really sets you up in such a lovely way. They make sure you have a mentor, an internship. And I remember, my senior year, I was interning for Peter Thomas Roth, and at the time, he was sort of in startup mode too, and he had just joined Sephora. And I remember being like, 20 years old. And Peter—this is crazy; bless his heart—he was like, “You should make my holiday collection for Sephora!” And I remember like, me? Like, you trust me? I’m the intern. I have no idea what I’m doing. But let’s go for it. And he—and this is really important. I want to say this out loud. You almost need that person to take a chance on you and believe in you early on, because it really does sort of give you permission to be successful and lets you know like, yes, you can do this. Don’t get in the way of yourself. You are that person. You can do this. So, I remember that was really the beginning. And then the funny thing is, you know, fast-forward 10 years after I got married and had kids, I actually went back to work for Peter as his head of marketing. So, let’s see. Since graduating college, I always sort of stayed in the whole, you know, startup business and also family-owned businesses. That’s really where I shine. And I think it’s like, the type A entrepreneur who I am, I need full control. And I don’t know if I would ever behave well in a corporate setting. So I always knew the ultimate goal was to launch a brand eventually of my own. So, I really took the jobs where I had permission to be that person, whether it was the head of marketing or the head of branding. And that’s sort of how much journey unfolded. I pretty much always stayed in skincare until just this year with Izzy, which is going into color, which is a first for me. But really, I think, you know, one of the things that I really love about this business is people are passionate. And that’s what sets us apart, is that we really love each other, and we support one another, we support other brands, and we’re really in love with what we do. And it never feels like work because it’s our passion.
Jodi Katz	Shannon, let’s go back to this tragic injury that really uprooted your goals. You seem like a super optimistic person to me, so I’m wondering, at that time, when you were obviously quite young, how did you handle the obvious shift from the goal that you had to finding a new goal?
Shannon Goldberg	I don’t—I think as a person, I never take a lot of time to feel down. I’m one of those super agile people that’s always on the go, always on the move, and thinking 10 steps ahead. So, as soon as it happened, obviously, I had to take a pause because I was physically hurt. And I had a couple months of just, you know, sort of sitting in bed not being super mobile, and had a lot of time to think. But I knew without a doubt, I always wanted to be in New York. And I also, like from the ballerina, behind the scenes point of view, loved getting made up into different characters. I loved doing my fellow ballerinas’ makeup. And I just—I loved that whole animation and coming to life with the use of color cosmetics. So, it seemed like a really natural shift for me at the time. And because FIT was so wonderful and I met so many great friends early on, and classmates, it just seemed like it wasn’t so bad. I didn’t have a lot of time to be sad. It felt like this natural shift that I ended up like, fully embracing. And of course, I was sad deep down. It’s hard to be in New York surrounded by dancers and actresses, and people who are making it, and people who live on a stage, because that was always the goal. But I have to remember, too, as a dancer, your career only lasts for so long. So, I kind of always knew in the back of my head, the career would probably be over by the time of, you know, reaching 30 years old anyway. So, looking back, I’m just—I’m grateful that it all worked out.
Jodi Katz	So, when you and I first chatted, it was right before you started this business. It was a time of flux for you. I think you had just lost your job thanks to COVID. You moved your family from New York to Tampa.
Shannon Goldberg	Yes.
Jodi Katz	And it was a really monumental, meaningful conversation for me, and I’m curious, like what do you remember about that conversation?
Shannon Goldberg	Oh my gosh. I feel like you were a firecracker. You had this awesome energy. And it’s true, to your point, it was one of those “Oh crap” moments. I was at home in quarantine, like everyone else. I’d just lost my job, or got furloughed from my job, that I had just convinced my family to move from New York to Tampa, Florida, of all places. We had no friends or no family here, so this was a crazy move that I just felt was the right move in my gut. And I remember wanting to start the business, being very close to starting the business. And you—I don’t know if it was your or your assistant. Someone reached out on LinkedIn, asked to set up a call, took the call, and it was like, that firecracker moment that is so good when you’re feeling down. And you sort of ignited this spark in me. And you had a million ideas to share, a million great ideas to share. And I remember, you were just like, “Blah, blah, blah, blah! You should think about this, you should do this, you should try this!” And it was just so good. And I remember hanging up the phone being like, phew, what just happened, and who is this amazing unicorn of a woman who’s so smart and has so many amazing ideas? And I remember going down a googling trail and wanted to know everything about you, and was just so happy we met. And then I did go on to learn about you. And I just think you’re the smartest, coolest lady out there.
Jodi Katz	Well, thank you for the praise. This is not exactly what I was looking for, but I’ll take it. You know, what’s so interesting to me after that conversation is that I talk to a lot of people—you know, this is like, the best part of my job, is I just get to meet and talk to people in our industry. And I talk to a lot of people who want to make a change, right, or a lot of people who feel like they don’t have a choice, right? They have to make a change. They’re put in a situation where change is necessary. But most people don’t do it, you know? And like, a minute later, you’d made this happen. And that was only two years ago. And I mean, a lot has happened for you in two years. So, I guess I’m just curious as to like, what was that moment where you’re like, “I have to jump on this. I have to make this happen”?
Shannon Goldberg	Right. So, hoo. Here I am in Tampa, Florida, without a job. And let’s all just say it out loud. The beauty industry is not in Tampa, Florida. And this is the only career I’ve ever known, so it really was like, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? And I remember being stuck in quarantine and coming across this article from National Geographic. And it was all about the beauty industry. And I remember, it was one line in the article that was really like, my a-ha moment. And it cited that in the beauty industry, we go through 120 billion units of unrecyclable plastic a year. And that was the first time I had ever seen or heard that. But I just felt so convicted in that moment. And it was like one of those things in a movie where your whole career and your life flashes in front of you, and you see yourself as the problem. And I saw myself as exactly that. I mean, never once in the 15 years had I thought about waste, or material reduction, or plastic consumption, or my carbon footprint. It just was never top of mind. Of course, there were whispers of it, and I was paying attention, of course, in a head of marketing role. But I just—I think a lot of times in our career, we’re sleepwalking, or we’re on autopilot. And we source our components from specific vendors who we have relationships with, and it’s the way we’ve always done it, so we don’t question it. Formulas, of course, there was the shift into clean, which was sort of new for me. I had never worked on a clean brand before. And sustainability, I knew the world was headed that way, but I felt like I didn’t really know how to help. I knew I wanted to help, especially after learning the statistics about our business. But I felt like how I have to imagine a lot of people feel. I felt helpless, in the sense that a lot of times, you see these big messages, like “Code red for climate change,” “All of Florida’s gonna fall into the ocean,” or “We’re running out of space. Our landfills are running out of space.” And you just feel like, what can I do as a person? And I realized, I do have the power. We in the cosmetic business have the power to actually drive meaningful change. It’s hard for people to consume sustainable products unless people like me, who are in the position of power, can actually make change easy and produce products that are easy to consume, where they don’t have to go out of their way. And for me, that was really the impetus of like, why Izzy? And I just—I wanted to do something different, and I wanted to leave a legacy behind. And even if 25% of our business adopts the Izzy method in the next five to 10 years, that would be the dream for me, because I know that together, our voices and our actions really can drive change in a big way.
Jodi Katz	I think a lot of the challenges in our industry and other industries around doing better—I’m just gonna classify it as doing better—is that there’s a lot of areas that need to be addressed, right? So, it’s waste, or waste reduction, or maybe it is recycling, or maybe it is the goop, you know? Like how we qualify if the goop is okay for the earth, right? So, there’s all these different buckets of change that need to happen. It’s really hard to make them all happen all at the same time. So I think what happens is that people just freeze, right? They do nothing, right? Businesses do nothing because it’s just—the hurdles feel too big to climb. So, you know, that’s what my goal is with this theme this quarter, is like, little by little, piece by piece, we can make change and make things better. And something that you developed with your brand, like you said, maybe other businesses will adopt, right? And then you just, shop-related, right? That impact.
Shannon Goldberg	Mm-hmm.
Jodi Katz	And I think it’s okay that there is no perfect here, right? That’s like a big criticism, right? Well, you’re not doing enough. You’re not doing enough! Or so-and-so’s doing this. But, you know, they’re doing X, but they’re not doing Y. And that criticism just gets in the way of progress.
Shannon Goldberg	Yeah. And the truth is, I try to always say this out loud to my peers, any step forward is the right direction. So, whether you’re looking at PCR plastic, if you’re working on a new clean standard, or if you’re looking to shrink your carbon footprint—those little baby steps, we can all take them. And this is especially important. I understand these bigger brands, these heritage brands, right? It feels a lot harder to change your positioning. But it’s not about changing your positioning. It’s really—it’s as easy as your next product launch, or your next franchise, your next product franchise. How can we look, re-look, or re-imagine what that product really looks like every gate of the product development process? Because it is these little baby changes, these little finite changes, that are going to make a bigger difference in all of us brands—the indie brands, the startups, to the big brands, the legacy brands that have been around forever. We can all start to make these changes. It’s not as daunting as it seems.
Jodi Katz	I want to go a little bit deeper into your background because you’ve had really fascinating jobs in this industry. So, you’re in the MediSpa space, and MediSpa is like, where it’s at, right?
Shannon Goldberg	Yeah.
Jodi Katz	It’s just a booming part of the business. And, you know, there’s a lot of action here. You worked with brands on QVC. So, I’d love to hear what value those roles and experiences gave to you that you’re using now as an entrepreneur.
Shannon Goldberg	Okay. I won’t bore you with all the jobs. But my first—one of my first job was with Ling Skincare in New York City. She had three outposts. And I remember graduating college and knowing from within, I never wanted to work a corporate role. I was sort of like, how can I be hands-on and have the most impact? And I remember walking past one of her spas in Soho, and I saw some celebrities hanging out, and knew that’s exactly where I wanted to be. And I also knew, upon graduating FIT, that skincare was really going to have a moment, and we were about to see a huge moment from color into skincare. And why not work with a celebrity facialist and just understand this new world that I know nothing about? And I also knew that working in such a small space, I could also work directly with the founder and hear everything directly from her mouth. And we did so much together. We took her three shops and turned her into a national brand. We got her distribution into major hotels and cruise ships. And she ended up going international. And to be a part of that growth early on really gave me the confidence to know that I could do this with other bigger brands. So naturally, I started climbing, one small family business at a time, putting in a year or two everywhere, which I know never looks good on your resume early on. But I wanted to keep that fire and that passion with every job, do something, really change a business from the ground up, and then sort of leave gracefully, and on to the next thing. Because, again, I always knew I wanted to start my own brand. So, all of these series of moments and jobs were really a collection of moments that would ultimately lead me to the ultimate frontier, being Izzy. After that, I worked for a very small lipstick brand called Fran Wilson. And I remember, we had a few small accounts, and, you know, a few of them were, you know, QVC London, HSN, and Shop NBC. And I remember presenting to the beauty director of Shop NBC. I remember only being like, 25 years old. And I’m going through the brand deck because I was the head of marketing. And, you know, mid-presentation, the beauty director was like, “You! You need to go on TV! You’re the person. You have the personality.” And I remember looking to my boss and being like, “Is she serious? Me?” And it was in that moment that I got really comfortable, from the time I was put on TV to sort of be the guest host, being able to talk about brands and products in a public setting. And that really gave me the confidence. And it felt like going back to my earlier life, where I was a dancer, and I was used to being onstage. This was a place that I’m super comfortable in and was performing in, and that’s exactly what it felt like. So, in a weird way, that sense of being a performer did come out in other ways, if that makes sense. And then from there, I started my own brand, and of course launched it right around 2008, which was the financial crisis, and launched on Shop NBC. And was really excited about it, but could no longer get any funding. And that’s something that we learn with startups, is that a lot of times, that brand fails because you didn’t have the proper funding or the proper insights. And as a young entrepreneur, I just didn’t know how much money you really needed to play in a bigger retailer like Sephora, for example. So, I had to close that brand down. And that time, I decided to become a mommy and had two kids back-to-back. Like I was telling you earlier, just bang those babies out, raise them up to a point where a nanny would be okay to take care of them, and went right back into work. And that’s when I knocked back on Peter Thomas Roth’s door and just, you know, asked like, “Will you have me back? I don’t care in what role, but I’m dying to get back into the business.” And he ended up putting me into an international sales role to oversee all of the Sephoras and also Ulta. And just grew so much within the Peter Thomas Roth world from sales, and then ultimately into head of marketing, and then executive director of marketing. We did so many wonderful things together. And I remember, people used to say this about Peter, is that he’s just crazy enough and just innovative enough. And that’s what made him successful, is that he was always down to try whatever’s new or chase whatever trend it was. And we had a lot of fun together. I remember together, we launched the product Water Drench Cloud Cream. And within five days, it sold out worldwide, off the shelves, which, good and bad thing, as we know in business, because it takes a minute to recover inventory-wise. But also, like, holy moly, what a wild success! And after that, I went on to launch a few more franchises with him. And I remember—this is crazy. I remember going to see the movie Wonder Woman in New York City. And I get a call from a recruiter telling me that there’s a job for a celebrity brand. It would be in skincare. I would stay in skincare. And we’re talking, talking, talking. And my recruiter was like, “Well, I have to tell you who it is. It’s Madonna.” And I remember being like, oh my god! Madonna? Like, oh my gosh! This is huge! And lo and behold, after several interviews, got the job, got to meet her. And knew, even if that brand lasted two years, that it would be the experience of my life. And it certainly was that. I’ll stop talking for a minute, because I’m sure you have questions.
Jodi Katz	Well, Shannon, you know, you led me right into my next question, which is when you worked on MDNA, did you have access to Madonna, and what kind of access, and how involved was she in the work that you were doing?
Shannon Goldberg	So, she—I remember my friends didn’t believe me because they thought it was so far-fetched. But they would be like, “No, who’s your boss?” And I’d be like, “No, like, we really answer to Madge herself.” Like, actually. Like, she actually approves every social media post. She actually has to approve every lab sample, the name of things, the price of things. I mean, like, she’s a legit partner. And I remember, the first time I met her, we were actually getting ready to go on set. Because the thing is, with a celebrity of that stature, is that you sort of have to take advantage of the in real life moments and maximize them to the 10th power. So, as in like, if you know you’re getting ready to launch, let’s make sure we shoot all the video content upfront. Her photo shoots, whatever it is, let’s make sure we really maximize our time with her. And that’s really what was great about her, is that she really rolled up her sleeves and dove into all of that, and was a true partner. But I remember walking into a small room. Her children were there, which was another just insane moment to be amongst her family. And she’s getting her makeup done. And I remember, she just looked me up and down, head to toe. And I’m standing next to her manager, Sarah, who I’m super close with still. And she looks at me, and she’s like, “Do you love my mud mask?” And I was like, “Yes.” And she was like, “Do you put it all over your body?” And I was like—one, I don’t know what to say, so I was like, “Literally, what else I would be doing with it? Of course I put it all over my body.” And I remember, at that moment, she looked at me, and she winked. And I think that was like the, you know, seal of approval with her, like, “Okay, I like you. I can get down with you.” But it was such a weird, awkward moment that I’ll never forget. And from there—
Jodi Katz	But wait, Shannon—
Shannon Goldberg	Yeah.
Jodi Katz	Did you put the mud mask all over your body?
Shannon Goldberg	No, of course I didn’t. But if Madonna’s asking if you put it over your body, you say yes. You’re like, “Obviously, yes. What else would I be doing with your mud mask?” And there’s just—there’s funny moments. I remember we were getting ready for our first press event, and I wanted to take a picture with her just to have that moment of like, we just did this. And I remember looking at her and being like, “You look really beautiful. I’m excited for this moment with you.” And she took my jaw and turned me to the camera, and I still have this picture. I look like a deer in headlights. And she goes, “Just shut up and look pretty, Shannon.” And I was like… If you go in my Instagram, just scroll all the way down. That photo’s there, where she has my jaw in her hand, and it was just another awkward moment. But that’s my life, a series of awkward moments, so. There you have it.
Jodi Katz	Oh my god. I love these stories. Okay. So this is leading to like, everything that’s always on my mind these days, which is, you know, running a business or being passionate about work, whether you work for someone else or you run a business yourself. And this tension between loving what you do so much that you think about it all the time, like when you go to bed at night, you have like, I’m sure, lists, and you wake up in the morning with new lists. But then also, the other stuff that’s in your life that’s important to you, right? So, I call this the seduction. My business seduces. Growing my business is a seduction, right? Any time I get a little taste of my dream coming true, I want more, right? I get hungry for more. So, but yet, I do not want to be somebody who’s sitting at my desk all day long, all night long, right? I want to be out and about, and do the things that I love beyond work. So, I’m curious about if you feel like growing your business is seductive? And if it is, what do you love about that seduction, and how do you, I guess, challenge it and, you know, lean into the other things in your life that are seductive beyond work?
Shannon Goldberg	Ooh, that’s a hard question, friend. Okay, so, I will say this out loud. I know for sure there’s no such life where you have the balancing, right, the balances of life and work. I feel like that, the weights will never be evenly distributed. But I do feel like now that I have the gift of working from home, that the elements of my life puzzle are fitting together a lot better. So, going back to the whole move from New York to Tampa, we actually had a home in Connecticut so our kids could go to the school we wanted, and I could live next to my in-laws. But I worked in New York City, and every day, I spent four hours commuting. And, you know, almost eight years went by, and I just felt like I didn’t know my husband, and I didn’t know my children. They were being raised by an amazing nanny who I love. But I knew that wasn’t the life I wanted. So, Tampa was the easy way for me to jump off my hamster wheel and sort of dive into the marriage I wanted, the sense of motherhood that I was really striving for, but also work at the same time. So, this move was really like my moment of, my life is about to change, and I am going to be forever grateful for this moment and really relish in it, which I am still to this day, two years later. Now, in terms of the seduction, this is where it gets hard. So, being trained as a classical dancer, I had this amazing instructor growing up. And there was always that threat of, if you take a day off or two days off, your body is not gonna be as flexible, or your range of motion won’t be to the extent of which it is today now that you’re practicing eight hours a day. And it’s a good thing and a bad thing. The good thing is, I have an amazing work ethic, and I love working. And I’m that person who puts my kids on the school bus, I start working at 6:30 in the morning, and I don’t end until 11:00. I’m not bragging about it because it’s not normal and it’s not good. At the same time, what I will say, as a CEO and founder of a company, I have been working really hard on my own mental health, because I know if I’m not okay, then my staff is gonna feel it, and they’re not gonna feel okay. So, what I am trying to do more and more is, one, just take those moments in the morning to like, light a cozy candle, do some yoga or a Peloton ride. And then I’ll dive into work. Or I also make it a point to check in with my staff so they know we’re so much more than just a work family. We’re family family. So, how are you? Checking in with my staff. But the most interesting part of COVID is that a lot of things happened for everyone. Sickness happened, but also, babies were born. And two of—actually three, three of the people on the Izzy staff actually ended up having COVID babies. And it was good for all of us, because I think we all learned to work with each other and collaborate on each other’s schedules. And sometimes that may be 6:30 in the morning, which may sound crazy. But we have a shoestring staff, and we’re all parents of children in that younger ages, and that’s when we’re awake and working, so it’s not a bad thing. It just is what it is. And I think it really is about embracing balance on that level. It’s just making sure that we all feel like our cup is full at the end of the day. And if anyone is feeling drained, that they know they have a direct line to me and a platform to speak and feel their feelings. And I’m there for them.
Jodi Katz	I—you said cup, and I have a bucket system. I visualize buckets. You know, like buckets that you wash a car with. And I have my work bucket in my visualization, I have my fitness bucket, I have my Real Housewives Bravo TV bucket. I have spontaneous time with my kids bucket, dates with my husband bucket. And I listen to my body and think about, which bucket feels low, right? If I’m feeling something, it means probably one of the buckets is low. Which one’s low? And then I visualize going to it, and then I actively fill it up, right? So, this spontaneous time with the kids one. I purposely say spontaneous time with my kids and not just time with my kids, because yes, I’m making breakfast or dinner, or shuttling them around, but that’s not always the quality time I’m craving, right? Spontaneous time is just picking up, going for a hike. Picking up, going on a trip. Like whatever, you know? Something that can be silly and fun. So I just make that happen, fill that bucket up, because I can’t be like, filling those buckets up all the time, right? I just have to listen to my body and what my heart and my head is saying. So, cup, bucket, I feel like it’s the same thing. It is the same system.
Shannon Goldberg	Yeah, no. That’s exactly what it is, just having awareness of that. Because being a pressure cooker is really hard. As in, I think we’ve all been there, where it’s like, all of a sudden, it’s like, layers of problems, and then all of a sudden, you explode! And you have this crazy moment where you’re just like, “I can’t do this!” And it’s a 50-car pileup of all your problems. And that’s what I’m trying to avoid. That’s what I’m trying to avoid for our team right now. And when that does happen, I—that means we really need to slow down and sit still for a minute, and let the dust settle.
Jodi Katz	Shannon, thank you so much for joining the show and sharing your wisdom with our listeners. I loved this conversation.
Shannon Goldberg	Me too! It’s been so good. It has filled my cup and my bucket.
Jodi Katz	And for our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Shannon. Please subscribe to our series on your favorite podcast app. And for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast.

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