Episode 199: Samantha Bergmann and Christopher Carl, Co-Founders of HETIME

Samantha Bergmann and Christopher Carl are planning to expand and revolutionize the male skincare market, by promoting skincare as an act of self-care. From leadership styles, to purposefully stepping into your passion, Sam and Chris share their experience as co-founders of HETIME.

Dan Hodgdon
AnnouncerWelcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty®, hosted by Jodi Katz, founder and creative director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi KatzHey everybody. It's Jodi Katz, your host of Where Brains Meet Beauty® podcast. Welcome back to the show. This week's episode features Samantha Bergmann and Christopher Carl. They're the co-founders of HETIME. And if you missed last week's episode, it featured Melissa Sperau. She's the US president of Shiseido. Thanks for tuning in.
Carey ChanningHi, Jodi. I want to say a huge congrats to you.
Jodi KatzWhat do you want to congratulate me for?
Carey ChanningToday is episode 199.
Jodi KatzThat's insane.
Carey ChanningI think you need to ring the bell.
Jodi KatzOkay. I'm going to ring the bell. Sorry to our audio engineer, Nico, for this loud bell ring.
Carey ChanningYes. So this is our last episode of this year. We are entering 2022 with our 200th episode and our fifth year of Where Brains Meet Beauty podcast, and that is a huge accomplishment. So congrats.
Jodi KatzCarey, that's so many milestones, five years, 200th episode, we met so many incredible people through the years. It's amazing.
Carey ChanningIt's really major and I can't help but think of the beginnings and what that looked like. Do you remember the first few episodes?
Jodi KatzYes. And our listeners do too, because interestingly, our very first episodes are still the most downloaded episodes. Isn't that crazy?
Carey ChanningIt's because the content doesn't expire. It's still relevant. It's still important.
Jodi KatzYeah. People really get excited to hear these stories. So the way this all started, you ready for this? This is big.
Carey ChanningI want to hear it.
Jodi KatzAleni and I just googled, how to make a podcast.
Carey ChanningAs one does when you need to learn anything, you turn to the internet.
Jodi KatzSo we ordered a lavalier mic, which is this little clip-on microphone that you can connect to the phone. And then I found some apps, it might have even been free, I don't know, some recording app and somehow I recorded these conversations over the phone. I really have no idea how I did it. I have to look this up to figure it out. But our first episodes were all recorded over the phone.
Carey ChanningBut you also rented a professional sound studio for a few of them when you wanted to be in-person, right?
Jodi KatzRight. So this is what happened. I did all my episodes in the beginning over the phone because I just didn't want to go through the hard effort and this effort firsthand of scheduling people in-person. That's really hard, aligning calendars. By the way everybody, Carey does that for us every day. It's a really hard job. So I recorded everything by phone, but then I had a change of heart.
Carey ChanningWow. You wanted to feed off the person, right? The energy?
Jodi KatzWell, I didn't know that except that I had a recording session with the team at Fat Mascara. So Jen and Jess were guests on my show and we recorded it in-person. And it was such a different experience and I decided I'm never going back until COVID. I'm never going back to doing this virtually.
Carey ChanningBut even over the phone as different than Zoom. So it really is seeing the person that you're connecting with and building off their energy.
Jodi KatzYeah. The in-person is the best for sure. It's super fun. It feels like a free fun therapy session with everybody I meet. And I also do these great intake calls in advance of the recording. So I get to meet my guests when they're super relaxed, because we're not recording. It's just a super relaxed conversation. And then typically we'd meet face to face in our recording studio, which we built out in our beautiful new office. But yes, over COVID over Zoom, it's fine. It's not as good as in-person though.
Carey ChanningSo just very quickly I want to tell our listeners about the spaces that we have been in in the past. We started at WeWork where it was that communal area that people would just trash and we had to hurriedly clean up and make it look beautiful and presentable to our guests. You remember that?
Jodi KatzWell, wait. I want to press pause on that. You're making WeWork sound like a total dump. It wasn't a total dump, but it was a recording studio in our WeWork space that you could book just like a conference room. So you just had to book it on the app. But what would happen is people would come and use it and then leave their candy wrappers around and not clean up after themselves. So we weren't in a trash heap, it was a nice space, but other people were taking care of it the way that we would.
Carey ChanningGood clarification. And they had other uses so it was all shuffled around. Anyways, next you moved into your own office space, but it wasn't a soundproof area. So we had to buy these ginormous accordion walls to try to condense the sound. So that was a bit of an operation.
Jodi KatzRight. And it was on Broadway in flat iron. So if a fire truck or police car was going by, we had to just stop talking and let the truck go by with their sirens blasting and then pick up the conversation.
Carey ChanningThat absolutely did happen a lot. And then we moved to our current space, which is absolutely gorgeous and branded and it just oozes Where Brains Meet Beauty. And it's waiting for us to return and pristine condition when the time comes.
Jodi KatzYes. I love meeting guests at our space because it's a really casual, lovely, pretty, bright space. People get really relaxed. They have a good time. We have tons of candy for them and we just have a really nice conversation. So I look forward to doing the stuff face to face again.
Carey ChanningAnd before we get into the episode, we just want to genuinely say a huge thank you to all of our listeners and fans who have gotten us to this 99th episode entering the fifth year. That's really exciting. And we appreciate you guys. So ring the bell for them.
Jodi KatzAnd Carey, I want to just give a shout out like you did to our loyal fans because we've gotten such incredible feedback through the years, we got feedback that our listeners consume the podcast while they're driving. And we've had people say to us that they pull over because they want to take notes. It's so cool how inspiring our guests are and the deep wisdom that they so generously share with our listeners and our listeners give us great wisdom back. And many of our listeners become guests on our show. So thank you so much for your support the past four years. I can't believe that in January we start our fifth year as a podcast. It's so cool.
Carey ChanningI just want to tease that we have exciting new things coming. I'm not going to give it away, but stay tuned for the beginning of the year, very exciting things. But we have an episode today. So let's get right into today's episode with Samantha Bergmann and Christopher Carl. Episode 199, let's roll it.
Jodi KatzHey everybody. I'm excited to be here with Samantha Bergmann and Christopher Carl. These are the co-founders of HETIME. Welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty®.
Samantha BergmannThank you. Hi everybody.
Christopher CarlHey Jodi.
Jodi KatzIt's nice to see you. So you are both in different places. So Samantha, where are you calling from?
Samantha BergmannActually at the moment I'm in Israel, but usually I live between New York and Vienna, spend most of my time in New York when I'm allowed to be you there.
Jodi KatzGreat. And Christopher, where are you calling in from?
Christopher CarlI am calling in from Upstate New York. Usually, I live in the city though.
Jodi KatzGreat. Well, thank you both for being here. So I'm going to start with my signature question. I'm going to give it to Christopher first, because he's a really good student of our podcast. So Christopher, when you were age 11 and someone asked you what do you want to be when you grow up? What would you say?
Christopher CarlFounder of HETIME. Joke of course. No, to be honest at 10 or 11, at that point, I think I was in my pilot phase where I thought it would be really cool to fly planes. So obviously that career choice would not come to fruition. But no, it took a bunch of years before I actually knew what I wanted to do. I chose to study business like everybody who doesn't really know what to do and then went on to consulting like everybody who doesn't really know what they want to do. And it wasn't really until a little bit later when actually working with brands in the beauty sphere that I really discovered a passion for that field.
Jodi KatzAnd Samantha, same question for you.
Samantha BergmannSo I was an avid basketball player, someone semi-professional when I was 11. But I would say at 12, 13, I started to get into magazines. I wanted to be the editor-in-chief for a fashion magazine, I want to say, which is something I started my career with. I worked at Vogue for two years as an assistant to Sara Moonves. So I started with that but now very happy I ended up at HETIME.
Jodi KatzSo let's talk about why men's skin care? Men don't get a lot of love in the skin care industry. So Samantha, why start this business?
Samantha BergmannYou answered it yourself. It's exactly what we were are seeing. So Chris and I had many conversations, we actually worked together before we started HETIME. We were both leading together in Influencer Marketing Agency in New York. And we started working with a lot of men. I was leading the talent management division and Chris was leading the brands division. So I started working very closely with men in the space and we got exposed to a lot of products in the space and we realized there's nobody who's really speaking to the modern men of our time and using, in our opinion, the correct language that people actually want to be spoken to. So we felt like there is a lot of space in the market for something modern, something current, something exciting and we thought it was the right time to start HETIME.
Jodi KatzThis is an uphill battle, to get men to have conversations around skincare. So Christopher, what's been the biggest challenge since launching?
Christopher CarlIt is exactly that. I mean, Samantha just said it. We set out to do things differently at HETIME. Our main goal is not to just launch a new, great product for guys. Our goal is to create the whole mindset around what skincare and self-care should actually mean to men and creating positivity around that category for men. So what we're trying to do is really establish a new mindset and creating new behaviors, creating healthier behaviors, creating this healthy relationship with men. And this category will take time. And I think our approach is so unique and so current and so in line with what's happening that we as a brand are already seeing that we're making progress, but of course it'll take longer than trying to sell a new product to, for example, women who have already tried a lot of different kind of products and brands.

So for us it's a lot of education. It's a lot of trying new things, being fun, being engaging, going a really, really strong and robust content route on our social channels, working with great people that have strong voices in the industry. So it's really marrying all these different components and telling a compelling story.
Jodi KatzSo let's talk about the careers that led up to this time. So Samantha, like you said, you had a junior role at Vogue and that alone is enough for people who want to ask you questions like what was it like, and at GLOSSYBOX. So what do you take with you from those experiences that helped you in your entrepreneurial journey so far?
Samantha BergmannThat's very a good question. So I think at Vogue, I learned to work really, really hard. And I also learned how to appreciate creativity and working in a creative space. And I realized later on that being an entrepreneur, you have to be creative many, many times. And it's also in our roles today, Chris has more the business hat on and I'm more involved in the creative things. We're working really closely on every decision we make together, but still, this is where I see myself and for me, Vogue was the start of that journey. But I didn't feel like I want to be exposed 100% on this path, I wanted to still be involved in business, but it definitely meant a lot for me to start my base there and really find love for creating things.

And working at GLOSSYBOX was just my first introduction to the beauty space because I was so focused on working in fashion beforehand that I felt like I wanted to be exposed to that space. And it was a beauty box subscription service. So I was basically testing different products on a daily basis. And I got to know what works, what doesn't work for my skin, what works and what doesn't work for the skin of the customers. And I really fell in love with the variety and vast products out there. And I felt quite strongly already then that at some point in my life, I would like to do my own product.

And then later on when we were leading the Influencer Marketing Agency, we got the third side and we saw how it works, how it works to work in media, what are people speaking to, what is the customer like to hear. And we also saw how much you can really use social media in order to understand your customer when you have a product and how you can use different influences to ask the questions and read the comments, listen to what people are saying in order to make your product and your brand more interesting and better. So there are many different learnings along the way. And we're still learning, by the way. This is not ending. I feel like every day I'm learning something new in this job.
Jodi KatzSo when I was at my first job after college, it was at BBDO, and I see that on your list, Christopher, and I was a assistant account executive. And my job, this is going to age me even more, but I was the person who would make dubs. So a dub is just a copy of a videotape, which nobody uses videotapes anymore, but basically as an assistant, you're making a dub and you're walking the dub to different people in the agency or putting it on an airplane. So anyway, but what I learned there, and I was there for a year and it's a lesson I use every day in my own agency, is that there's always a solution, even if it's not a yes for exactly what the client asks for, there's a solution. We can find a way to do something similar. So that's amazing for client servicing. So Christopher, I'm going back on your resume, tell me what you learned working at retail at Ralph Lauren that helps you today.
Christopher CarlRetail at Ralph Lauren. Yeah, that was... It's funny, most people hardly don't put things on their LinkedIn that is that short. I think it was only two, three months, but it really shaped me in a lot of different ways. I was studying abroad in Paris at the time as part of my Erasmus Program and I needed to make some money on the side. And this new Ralph Lauren shop, it just opened up and so I just walked by, gave them my resume and they said, "Yeah, cool, we need people. So come in, start tomorrow." And-
Jodi KatzAnd you're so American and Ralph Lauren is so American.
Christopher CarlYeah, exactly. So I started the next day. And there's something extremely fascinating about working in retail. It just throws you in at the deep end, especially if you've never done it before, having to engage with people and talk to people on a daily basis about things that you probably don't know much about in the beginning. It makes you extremely comfortable with all kinds of strangers and asking them personal questions, finding out more about them and making them feel comfortable. So I think that experience has really let me overcome fear and fear of engaging with new people in a profound way. And so I think everybody should probably at some point or the other starting out on their career should work in retail. I think it's an amazing school.
Samantha BergmannYeah. Same school at the GLOSSYBOX. Everybody had to work, I think it was one week per every two months in customer service, which is super hard and then actually call up people and on the phone and people are upset because they didn't get their box or whatever it was. But that was also a pretty good school. So similar experience, just on the phone.
Jodi KatzYeah. I love that. I had a retail job in college where I worked at Express, which is a... I think it's still around, a woman's clothing store and I wanted to be invisible. I didn't want any customer to ask me a question. If I could have been more invisible, I would've. I hid behind piles of sweaters. Fast forward, many years, I worked at Luis Vuitton in Provence and we had many retail stores. And there I got a full training on how to engage with customers, how to look people in the eyes, how to talk to them about something and then selling. And that to me is so helpful every day. I do actually miss being in store. I thought it was super fun and I love, love, love customer service stuff. I mean, that's where all the insights are. I'm sure you see this at HETIME, so much opportunity to refine your messaging if you really listen to what people are saying.
Samantha BergmannYeah, and being at D-to-C brand is what I was trying to say before. It's so interesting because you actually get to be in touch with your customer, whether it's via email or on social media, but you can actually engage with them. And we are also running our own social media so we actually see the comments and the emails coming in and we do our best to answer that within a couple hours. And they're such valid and good questions and actually really get us to understand what are people misunderstanding about the product? What are the questions are coming up? How can we make our Q&A better on the website? Or make our SEO better or whatever it is. So really, really helps to get the product-
Christopher CarlOr what kind of new product should we launch?
Samantha BergmannExactly. That was actually something we asked our core customer base first. So it's very exciting to work with the customers. And I think it's a huge advantage when you have a D-to-C brand.
Jodi KatzSamantha, do you remember the very first job you had ever where you earned money?
Samantha BergmannYes.
Jodi KatzWhat was it?
Samantha BergmannWell, that was a babysitter. Well, it was babysitting, but then at the same time... It was actually a funny story. When I was 12, I really wanted to be an editor-in-chief one day of a magazine. And so I worked at InStyle in Munich with... I think I was 15. It was a summer job, an internship. And actually that boss there, she's super scary. And I hated it she asked me, but she apparently always asked the interns to look after her baby, which I think nowadays people wouldn't do anymore. But back then, that was totally fine. So she asked me to look after her. So basically, that was my first and second job within a couple of weeks.
Jodi KatzOh my goodness. That is so not okay anymore, but I can totally imagine it happening. And do you remember what you spent that money on?
Samantha BergmannOh my God, probably makeup. I was makeup obsessed, but I was 14, 15. So definitely makeup. I had that MAC lipstick, which I think bought 16 times after that because I used it so much that it was gone after two and a half weeks.
Jodi KatzChristopher, what was your very first job making money?
Christopher CarlI had a paper route at 14, I think. So I would deliver a very annoying newspaper that everybody who I gave it to didn't want it, they immediately threw it away. It was full of averages. And so that was in the wintertime especially, very, very challenging. Had my little bike and my basket in the back and I would just throw the newspapers into people's driveways.
Jodi KatzAnd do you remember what you spent that money on?
Christopher CarlI actually have no idea. It might have been a remote controlled car or something like that. I was very much into those kind of things.
Jodi KatzI was a babysitter very early, I think at age 13. And I can't believe people would leave me alone with their children. They did. And I made so much money and I probably saved a lot of it but I remember being a teenager, maybe 16 years old and saving up for a Kate Spade purse, which was a very, very big deal back then. Very, very big deal.
Samantha BergmannI remember that.
Jodi KatzI think I might even still have it. It's vintage at this point. Okay. So let's talk about leadership style. This is a new business in a category that is underserved. And you're co-founders. This is very exciting to have a partner, but it can also be very challenging. So what does leadership look like for both of you as you try to grow this business? And we'll start with Christopher.
Christopher CarlYeah. That's a good question. I mean, Sam and I, we work extremely well together because we were working already together before this brand. So when it comes to leadership among the two of us, we actually are extremely in tune and for the most part come to agreements and very fruitful also discussions and conversations very easily. But when I look at, I guess the past bosses that I've had, I think the most interesting ones were the ones that were extremely strict and demanding but at the same time also very encouraging. And it's just to strike that fine balance of seeing the good in people, but also really setting high expectations and just a solid framework to people to work in. And we do have some experience in that because our previous agency that we led when we left the agency, over 20 people. So I think that style has worked well for us in the past.
Samantha BergmannYeah. I think for me, it's actually trust. So the reason Chris and I can work together is because we trust each other blindly with each other's expertise. But also when one of us happens to have a strong opinion about something and the other person has another, then we really just talk about it. In the end we always come to a conclusion that both feel okay about because of trust. So I think it's trust then a lot of conversations to be had. And same with leadership when we have now partners in our company and also when we work with different agency, whatever, it's always, if you hire somebody to do something then I think you need to trust them also to do it. And a lot of bosses out there make the mistake to still micromanage.

And I do tend to want to micromanage. I can I catch myself when I'm trying to be like, "Can you cc me on that email?" So I just stop myself to do that and I'm just like, "No, this is..." There is many people who have much more experience in certain things that's why they hired them than I do. So I need to this moment just listen to them and let them do their thing.
Jodi KatzHow do you stop yourself? What do you have to do to stop yourself from entering that conversation?
Samantha BergmannIt's like you just catch yourself. You're about to write that email and you just say, "Oh, I wouldn't like that myself." I mean, having had several different jobs prior to starting my own business, I know what it feels like to be employed and also to work in a bigger corporation, but then also work in a startup. There are a lot of anxious bosses out there. And when you feel their anxiety and you feel there's stress breathing down your neck, you just don't work as well as when you can tell, okay, they trust you and they believe in you and you just want to do so much better. So that's the spirit that I hope we give off and that we definitely give each other.
Jodi KatzSo Christopher, this questions for you. I've been in this business for a long time and I consistently do not want to own a product brand. I do not want inventory. I don't want to manufacture. I love that I'm service based. It's a real simplification of the dynamics of running a business. So why do you want inventory? Why do you want to manufacture?
Samantha BergmannI love having inventory.
Christopher CarlThat's a great question. I mean, having worked in a service brand or a service industry before, it is so lean and it's so easy set up and you can grow so quickly if you do it well. But at the same time, there's nothing more gratifying than having a physical product in your hand that you developed both internally, the formulation or whatever it is and the design and just seeing it in a store or having people post about it that just organically love the product or, as Sam said, write us with positive feedback or even critical feedback, just having this physical touchpoint, the fruit of your work in your hands. That's just something that feels amazing. And we worked for so many different brands in our previous career that at some point, we just felt like you know what? We can do this so well, why don't we do this for our own team for our own brand and continuously grow that? So yeah, it's an incredible feeling for sure.
Jodi KatzOkay. So now let's go back in time and tell me the moment when this conversation started about let's leave this agency and start a men's skin care brand. Sam, you can start.
Samantha BergmannChris should start because he called me. I actually already-
Christopher CarlBut you left earlier.
Samantha BergmannI did leave earlier. I did leave the agency earlier. Basically, Chris left few months after I left. And we actually were in touch throughout and we constantly said throughout, one day we'll do something together. And then once he did leave, he called me up again. He was like, "Okay. So this finally happened I left and I'd like to do something and I'd love to do something in the skincare space. What do you think about men's skincare?" Then we'd start discussing that topic back and forth. And I was like, "Are you crazy? The men's skincare, there's enough people out there that would do it." And he's like, "That's exactly the point." And so there was a lot of back and forth.

And then actually we came him up in that moment, in that conversation, because he was like, "I want to do a line." I was like, "No, we can't just start with a line. There's too much competition. We won't have enough money," that we decided we want to start... First of all, we decided within seconds we're going to do this, which we never really actually discussed. It just was like, "Okay, we're doing this." But then we actually decided to do the sheet mask as a first product within that same phone call because I was still very much involved in the influencer space and I saw all of these guys starting to post themselves in the bathroom and putting on a mask or showing themselves putting on the moisture, whatever it was, but it was always showing them in a selfie mode on their stories.

And we both realized quickly that there's so much we can do out there actually using our connections within the social media space working with different influencers to bring a product to use that instead of having to use actual influencers, but we wanted a product that's visible. And we realized, "Hey, there's never been a sheet mask out there made for men. So let's start doing that. It's special and it's visible and actually it's super effective and an amazing product. So why don't we start doing that?" And that was really the first conversation we talked about HETIME.
Jodi KatzOkay. So Christopher then take me back in time because were you quitting your jobs and didn't have another job lined up?
Christopher CarlI was primarily done with the agency life. I felt like this just wasn't for me anymore. And so I left without having this clearly built out in my mind. I just took some time off. I did some solo traveling, the typical stuff when you leave a job. And then coming back and having thought a lot about what I want to do next, it was a product brand. It was something that I was always intrigued by. My very first internship 10 years prior was at Calvin Klein Fragrances. So I had fallen in love with the idea of beauty brands and the power that just a brand can have because obviously many of these projects are very interchangeable, but it's the power of the storytelling of the content that just really got me excited and that's something that I thought we could do, Sam and I, exceptionally well. And so as Sam said, we jumped on a phone call. She was in Europe at that time, I was still in New York. A week later, I flew to Berlin and we sat down and within a week, we had this whole brand set up.
Samantha BergmannYeah. And it was actually really fun because Chris came up, he already obviously did a lot of research about the business side of the men's skin care space. But then we really dug into it and we realized how there's so much we can do. And then we also came up with the HETIME name during that time in Berlin where we had a little workshop because we just felt like this really represents what we're trying to create out there, a specific time that he will have for himself and that he can actually call it I'll have a little he time right now, because in the skincare space, it's never been time dedicated to men's self care. And that's what we're trying to do.
Christopher CarlSo it's always about efficiency and a lot that's focused around tech or something functional, whereas we want guys to actually celebrate and look forward to this moment, whether it's 20 minutes that they use our mask for or something else that takes a minute or 30 seconds, it's always that it's that positive conotation with the ritual rather than just the product.
Jodi KatzAnd is this business boot strapped? Is this your investment?
Christopher CarlMm-hmm (affirmative).
Samantha BergmannYes.
Christopher CarlYep.
Jodi KatzThat's a lot. It's a lot of pressure.
Christopher CarlYes. But at the same time, it's fully ours.
Samantha BergmannExactly. It's ours and that was super important to us. From the beginning and for the beginning we wanted it to be our vision.
Jodi KatzSo with the time we have remaining, let's talk about what it takes to actually see the dream come true. I'm sure you have a lot of dreams, but this is not inexpensive business to grow in. The cost of doing business is high. From my perspective, I know there is men's skin care out there, but it sounds like you're really started a new category in men's skincare which means that you have to spend double. You have to invest in your brand name, but you have to also invest in creating purpose in this new category, like men should be paying attention to their skin. Men should be taking time for themselves. That's a whole different mountain to climb next to the other mountain, which is the HETIME mountain. So what is your goal, your next year goal, your five year goal? I mean, how do you stay focused when every day really is hard? And we can start with Sam.
Samantha BergmannOkay. Yeah. I just want to quickly answer to the first part of what you were saying about the two months. I think actually we started right at the right time when it was no longer a huge mountain to climb, but actually there was a lot of work that's been done in the press, in the media. Just there is already these waves that were happening where gender is no longer such an issue when it comes to skincare. So you already started seeing men using creams and talking about it and there's been man aisles in drug stores and stuff. So I feel that the mountain has been paved a little bit and it wasn't as hard to climb. But yeah, what are our goals? I think that we already reached a huge goal by launching and actually our launch was extremely successful.

We got tons of PR because of the special product that we did launch with that specific cause that we had in mind. And it got a lot of great press and amazing reviews for the product, which was obviously super important to us that actually the product also succeeds and people are loving the product. So that was a huge success in the past. And when I look into the future, I think we really want to own that space entirely. So we started with a niche product or a product that was new to the category but we are going into different products that are more familiar within the category, just better. And that's something that we're going to build out more and more throughout this year. Actually, we're going to launch a new product the summer, which is super exciting and additional products throughout the year.

And then we don't see the skincare space as one alone. We actually see skincare and selfcare as one. And we're one of the only and first brands that are combining those two spaces within the brand and within the products that we create. Chris maybe you want to talk more to that.
Jodi KatzYeah. Chris, tell me your five year goal. What dream would come true in five years if you had your wish?
Christopher CarlYeah, just really piggybacking off of what Sam said, obviously filling a bunch of niches that we feel like are within just the bathroom sphere and all the different HETIME moments that just we know we can do better and put a smile on guys' face when they reach for a product, but then also expanding that whole realm of not just skincare, but also the self-care realm. So having experiences that don't just relate to a physical product, something that can live online and offline, amazing collaborations with other brands that operate in complementary categories and just creating a brand world rather than just a great lineup of products, because the HETIME ethos can support a whole lifestyle that I think guys are just not that familiar yet with and that we want to bring closer to them and make it more accessible. So yeah, that's really-
Samantha BergmannYeah. I'd love in five years for people to start using HETIME as a word, not only relating to our products, but more for a time that actually use to take care of themselves.
Christopher CarlYeah. And the name might be HETIME and we are speaking to guys and getting them excited about the category, but our products are so good, they should also be used by everybody. In fact, already we have tons of women who buy this for themselves or buy it for their significant others. And these are products that are not meant to exclude anybody. They're just meant to include men and speak to them more directly. But yeah, hopefully down the road, we'll also have a broad customer base that goes beyond just men.
Jodi KatzWell, thank you so much to both of you for sharing your wisdom and your journey with our listeners today. It's so nice to see your faces.
Christopher CarlThank you. Yeah, really fun.
Samantha BergmannThank you so much, Jodi. It's been fun.
Jodi KatzAnd for our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Samantha and Christopher. Please subscribe to our series on iTunes and for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast.
AnnouncerThanks for listening to Where Brains Meet Beauty® with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.

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