EPISODE 195

My guest this week Sara Happ and I touch on her love for beauty, media and entrepreneurship, and how this led to her taking a groundbreaking idea into fruition. Through the founding and management of her lip brand, Sara Happ Inc, she was able to see her vision come to life! 

AnnouncerWelcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty®, hosted by Jodi Katz, founder and creative director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi KatzHey everybody, it's Jodi Katz, your host of Where Brains Meet Beauty® Podcast. Welcome back to the show. This week's episode features Sarah Happ, She's the founder and CEO of Sara Happ. And if you missed last week's episode, it featured Jeremy Soine, he's the CEO of Face Reality. Hope you enjoy the shows.
Carey ChanningHello, hello, Jodi. How are you doing?
Jodi KatzHi Carey. Thanks for being here.
Carey ChanningOh, it's wonderful to be back. Now that you've got me on a roll, you're not going to get rid of me.
Jodi KatzWell, I'm curious. Yeah. I'm super curious to hear our listeners' reaction to getting to meet Carey, someone who's always behind the scenes, but now she's on air, which makes me so happy.
Carey ChanningI want to have a poll for our listeners. And we can do this on social. I want to know if anyone can guess where I was born and raised by my voice. Do people know where you're born and raised? Your accent is a bit prominent. So I wonder if you've given it away in previous episodes. I'm sure you have.
Jodi KatzI mean, I go to the mall. Doesn't that explain where I'm from?
Carey ChanningAnd I say y'all. There you go. All right, we'll have to have a poll on social. Anyways.
Jodi KatzAnd I drink water. I don't drink water. I drink water.
Carey ChanningAs a kid. I thought you spelled wash, W-A-R-S-H, warsh. So that's that. But we've progressed forward.
Jodi KatzSo Carey, I want to talk about Sarah Happ, who's our guest this week. I met this brand first from a makeup artist. There was a Sarah Happ lip scrub in the makeup artist's kit.
Carey ChanningOkay. That's literally my exact same story too. I met Sarah Happ's brand through a makeup artist. And the lip scrub was the first step. I guess you primed the face. And she had me doing that. And it felt very foreign, but it also felt amazing on my lips. So I kind of got hooked as well. And Sarah did happen to send over some products for us after recording. And I'm totally spoiled now, the lip mask, the lip scrub. She has so many unique and interesting products just for your lips. And it's incredible to have a niche brand like that.
Jodi KatzYou know what I think is so cool about Sarah's company, is that she is really willing to commit herself to focusing on lip. She's not a lip brand that then launched a foundation, launched an eyebrow gel, launched a hair serum. She's completely focused on lip. That's what she's known for. And they lean into it strongly. And I think it's important for the customer. The customer doesn't want to buy everything from one brand, right? She wants to play and have fun with multiple brands. So, to know as a reflex that if I want something for lip, I'm going to go straight to Sarah, I think is a really powerful position for this small company.
Carey ChanningI totally agree. As the consumer, I put full trust into them knowing what they're doing. And like you said, if they came out with a dry shampoo, it's like, really? But we know that they're experts. And she is totally dedicated on fixing problems and all needs for lip care. And she really dives into that in our episode. So, shall we just jump right on in?
Jodi KatzLet's do it.
Carey ChanningAll right. Listeners, enjoy episode 195 with Ms. Sarah Happ.
Jodi KatzHey everybody. Welcome back to the show. I am so excited to be joined by Sarah Happ, She's the founder and CEO of Sarah Happ. Welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty.
Sarah HappHi, Jodi. Good to meet everyone. Thanks for having me.
Jodi KatzI'm so excited to be doing this. I'm glad we can make it happen. I actually met you by phone, maybe over a year ago, might even be two years at this point, through Peggy. So it's really nice to reconnect. And I'm so excited for our fans to learn more about you.
Sarah HappThank You. Yes. Peggy Frye is our company's president. We call her Mrs. President. And she is phenomenal. She's the greatest leader. And we just love her.
Jodi KatzSo let's go back in time, Sarah, long before you were even a teenager to maybe 11 years old. And if somebody asked you what you want to be, when you grow up, what was your response?
Sarah HappA news anchor. If I were an 11 year old Sarah, I mean, five-year-old Sarah up until USC 22 year old Sarah wanted to be Diane Sawyer very much. I really wanted to be an on-air news broadcaster.
Jodi KatzAnd you knew that starting at five?
Sarah HappI knew it. Yes, I did. I loved local news. I loved reading the paper. I'm from Chicago, so I'd read the Chicago Tribune. And I loved watching local news. And I then discovered ABC News, and the Diane Sawyers and the Connie Chungs of the world. I connected with it for some reason, and I really wanted to be them. So I followed it all the way through to journalism school. I went to the broadcast journalism school at USC, very much on purpose, and figured out that my strength was not in news or in front of the camera. It wasn't. My strength was really, I loved television. I loved media. I could get behind that, but from a business perspective.
Jodi KatzSo was that a hard dream to give up?
Sarah HappNo. Because, Jodi, it wasn't because it was so apparent to me. I was with all these really talented people at USC who were simply better suited for that job than I was. And I think the other thing that it made very clear to me was, I wasn't willing to work in the environment that you sort of have to work in to work your way up. When you're a local news broadcaster, you leave school and then you send your footage out to every news market. I think you know this, Jodi. And you try to get hired. I just didn't want to do that. I knew I wanted to be in big cities with big companies. That's what I responded best to. So I took a job, gratefully, with ESPN cable sports in Connecticut. And I left LA and moved to Connecticut for six years where I worked for ESPN.
Jodi KatzSo Sarah I'm giggling inside because I have a friend in town who did that job. She went to school for journalism. She got on air in some local, I don't even know where she was, and she still has videos of her work. And she looks like she's 50 years old, even though she's 22. The makeup, the hair, the whole thing. But now she has a better job in advertising.
Sarah HappYeah. If you can pull it off, my hat is off to any broadcaster who can do it. I wanted to work for a large company and I wanted to do it behind the scenes. Funny though, when I got to a large company and was working in cable sports, and it was incredible. I always say that I was inspired by how uninspired I actually was, working in that environment. Now I was working around sports geniuses. These people, they lived and breathed ESPN and our products. And I loved media, but I was a beauty girl at heart.

So where my co-workers would go home and listen to ESPN Radio, and have four different televisions in their living room, streaming every show and have it on their phone. This was in 2001, 2002 up to 2005. I realized, all right, I love sports and I love media, but these people live and breathe it. What I go home and do at night and on weekends is I take a bubble bath with 16 different products. And I read Allure and In Style. And beauty editors are my favorites. And that's what I do. And that's what eventually led me to start creating my own products.
Jodi KatzI think it's so interesting when you're at a job and you look around and see your peer group and realize, these aren't my people. I had that experience. I had an advertising agency job, and everyone there was so excited about which agency is getting which account, and obsessed with it. they would track it the way people track sports. So-and-so's switching agencies. And who's swapping creative director roles? They followed it like it was sports. The statistics of it were very fascinating to them. And I just didn't care. I really could not have cared at all. And I looked around, I'm like, while I love the job I'm doing, these aren't my people. I had to find my people. Yeah. I found them in beauty too.
Sarah HappOh, Jodi. Yes. Find your people. Your people are out there. That's what I would say. So for us, it's beauty people. For you, it's beauty and media. My people are definitely beauty people. A thousand percent. And my people are entrepreneurs. They're actually not the big companies that I thought I wanted to work for. They're people that start small and either stay small, or they grow their brand into something very large. So yes. You can find your people, whatever you're doing, there are others out there like you.
Jodi KatzSo you just mentioned big companies. I think on the surface, if somebody looks at your list of distribution, they think you're a big company. They think that you would classify yourself as a big company. So I don't know if I have the most recent list, but I'm looking at Ulta, Bluemercury, Nordstrom, QVC, Amazon, hundreds of boutiques and spas that are independently owned. So that would sound, on the surface, like you're a big company. Are you a big company?
Sarah HappYou know what? Okay. So it's really funny. I was on the phone with my good friend, Indie Lee, who Jodi and I were talking about before we started recording. Indie and I were both having this conversation yesterday on the phone together. She's distributed in all those places as well and beyond, and she's worldwide. And she is just a force unto herself. At the heart of it though, we're both entrepreneurs. So in any given day, our company only has nine employees. And then it probably takes a symphony of 30 people to make us go. So my publicist, Jasmine, is in New York. She's on this call. It's a whole symphony of people. But in our LA office, it is eight women plus me, that's it. So we are tiny but mighty. And we make a lot of things happen. And everyone does all the jobs.
Jodi KatzSo supporting all those retailers is an enormous amount of resources, right? It's not just about people. It's about money too, right?
Sarah HappJodi, I always say business is personal. So it's relationships. I see all of those different companies. Behind Ulta, behind Nordstrom, behind QVC, there are humans. So it's about keeping those relationships strong and making sure that we are giving every different retail outlet what they need and what serves them best. What serves the QVC customer best is not what serves the Neiman Marcus customer best, is not what serves the Ulta customer best. It's not what serves the indie boutique, two minutes from my house here in Manhattan beach, it's owned by my neighbor, that doesn't serve her. So it's like serving your different audiences well, and keeping those relationships really intact because every business is personal.
Jodi KatzSo, at the beginning of this journey, before you actually started the company, someone told you that you shouldn't start until you get an MBA. Was that person right or wrong?
Sarah HappJodi, you're such a researcher. I know this about you. That is true. I was told in 2005 that I had a very good idea. And clearly I had a mind for business, and I had the fire and all of that. But what I should really do is pause and go back to USC and get my MBA. And my answer was absolutely not. I loved school. I loved broadcast journalism school. I was in my sweet spot, loved it. I did not want to go back to school at all. I also had this feeling that I was meant to be an entrepreneur that shot from the hip, that kind of went with my gut. And I had this idea for a lip scrub that didn't exist. So in my brain, I am in a race against the clock. This is 2005. This is 16 years ago. I am in a race against the clock because no lip scrubs in 2005 existed. If you Googled it, Google returned zero results for the term lip scrub. Anyone that's listening, Google it now, you're going to find, I don't even know how many.

But so, I knew I was sitting on this idea that didn't exist. And I was like, if I go back to business school for years, this is going to be in Sephora and my idea is going to be toast. So it was well meant advice. But for me, it was a thousand percent wrong. And I'm frankly really happy that I never did it because I went into starting my brand with so much hope and optimism and enthusiasm and just natural excitement. And my strategy was nothing they would teach you in business school. It was all just in my brain. And it was probably something that business school would frown upon. Even the best entrepreneurship programs. I was just doing it so my own, Sarah style, and I look back on it and I'm like, you were a little lunatic. You were a 25 year old, little precious lunatic. But I think that business school would have probably scared me out of a lot of the moves that I made.
Jodi KatzSo I'm curious. My guess is, many people told you, oh, that's nice, but you can't make up a company out of just lip.
Sarah HappYeah, no, we still hear that today. I mean, we're 16 years in and we still hear from people, why just lips? And my answer is, the lip industry, if you do a very deep dive, it is the oldest industry in beauty. Charles Revson, Estee Lauder, lipstick is one of the very first things that was ever a beauty product. The lip industry, as I learned after I made my lip scrub and took it to market, I learned very quickly, with the chemists that were around me by that point, the lip industry, the dirty little secret is that it's empirically broken. So what you're used to putting on your lips most of the time, whether it's from a drug store or whether it's from a luxury boutique, it probably dehydrates your lips. And it probably leaves you wanting more, which is excellent business, right? As a brand, as a company, that just means people are going to become 'addicted' and buy more and more and more because they're licking it off and it doesn't stay, and it's dehydrating them so they use more. So they need more.

My answer, Jodi, was what if we made lip products that truly did hydrate and also fix problems that you don't even know you have, fine lines around your lips, lip asymmetry, cracked lips, dry lips, lips that you think are too big, too small, somewhere in between? You don't like your lip color, why don't we change the way people look at their lips? And let's put out skincare for your lips. So think of all of the skincare problems that brands are solving for, those all apply to your lips. So we have four years of lip products already made, that are already in R&D that are ready to roll out today. I can do this for decades.
Jodi KatzI love the focus because I think that the customers are really just confused. There's the beauty junkie people who are researching. Heavy users, I'll call them. But then there's everybody else. And the everybody else are the people who are really buying the products. And they're just overwhelmed and confused. So I think when a brand can really just say, this is what we do, and this is our specialty, and you don't need to look anywhere else for lip. I think it makes the customer relax and be able to navigate the products and navigate the options.
Sarah HappThank you, Jodi. I completely agree. And that's my thing. My answer is, I'd rather do one thing and do it perfectly than go into color, which I don't actually know anything about. That's not my wheel house. And I really look to brands, I have two girlfriends, Alli Webb, who started Drybar, Sarah Gibson Tuttle, who founded Olive and June. They both have built brands around the notion of doing one thing. Allie stuck to blow outs. It is blowouts, no cuts, no color, just blow outs. That's what she does. And Sarah Gibson Tuttle with Olive and June, it is nails. If you go into an end cap now at target, all she does is nails.

Do people want her to do face and feet and hair? Of course. But what she loves is nails. So when I want a blowout, I go to Drybar. When I want my nails done, I go to olive and June. So I appreciate that. And I too think that if you focus your consumer, and you let them know you're doing one thing and you are going to deliver on what you're seeing, because you really mean it, and you've got the product right the first time, they trust you. And that's why I think we've been here for 16 years, because people trust us.
Jodi KatzSo let's talk about 16 years, because it's a long time. I've had my business for almost 15. And you sound very optimistic and really engaged, even though you told me you're not feeling well. But you still sound so excited about the business. And I'm wondering, has it gotten a lot easier? How do you keep the momentum and your energy level? Because it's a long time.
Sarah HappIt is a long time. You know what it is. It hasn't gotten easier. things don't get easier. And this was something that I've talked about with all of my female founder friends, particularly in beauty. The bigger you get, it's all the same problems. It's just they might be Nordstrom wide problems or they might be in your kitchen problems. We're all dealing with the same things.

A really good piece of advice that was told to me by my brother, who is older and wiser than me. He said, "Sarah, it doesn't get easier. You get better at rolling with the things." So for me, what I maybe considered 10 years ago to be catastrophic, I now can navigate. What I maybe would have considered to be a really horrible problem or unsolvable, I can roll with better now. So it's like managing stress and knowing that as an entrepreneur, it's all a ride and it's all cyclical, and just calming yourself, chilling out.

My excitement level comes from loving what I do. I love it so much. I don't love all of it. I was on a finance call for an hour this morning, that wasn't fun. My PR calls with Jasmine are so fun. We have a call on Friday about our product rollout for the next few years. I can't wait. I don't love all of it, but there is enough of it that I am obsessed with that it keeps it fun. The other thing that keeps it fun is our customers. And knowing that there are women, and men, out there that we're serving that actually buy our stuff and love it. And I want to just keep serving it up for them.
Jodi KatzYour brother's advice is so meaningful to me because in therapy, this is what I've been talking about with my therapist. Finally finding ease through the work. My body, I've been able to teach my brain and my heart that, think there are easy days and there are hard days. But that even through the hard days, there is a sense of ease. And it's true. Over time, that's the gift. I mean, that's wisdom, I guess. The problems actually probably get bigger, but they feel less big because I'm already proven to myself I can handle anything.
Sarah HappYes. I agree. And I think that in anyone's life, whether you're in business, whether you're a parent, whether you're single, it doesn't matter. Wherever you are in life, the more challenges you face, the stronger you do get. And you can recall what you've already done before. You can say, all right, this seems insurmountable. Or this seems like a big deal, but guess what I did two years ago. If I can get through that, I can get through this. So I think it's just a matter of, it sounds so easy to say, remain optimistic. I would say, just keep betting on yourself because we are all smarter and stronger than we think we are. And the advice I'd probably give to my best friend about how amazing she is and how tough she is and how smart and resilient and strong she is. Give that to yourself and take it.
Jodi KatzI love that. I needed that in the first many of years of my business, I guess, until two years ago. I had so much self-doubt. It really was debilitating. But of course, I was everyone else's cheerleader, if a friend was a having a problem, I would tell them everything you just said. But I wasn't feeling it for myself. I wasn't believing it. And there was a moment where, thanks to therapy and three different coaches and a great team, I was able to see the light switch go off in my brain and be like, oh right, I don't need to doubt myself. I don't need to live in fear. I can do this. And I'll do it whatever way it gets done, it's going to happen.

There was a big turning point for me. And it changed so much about how I approached balancing being a mother and owning a business. I was super fearful that I was going to become this toxic mean mom who never wanted to hang out with their kids. I had this weird movie playing in my head, and I wasn't leaning into my work because I was terrified I was going to become somebody I didn't want to be. And then once I realized, just because I lean into my work doesn't mean I'm going to become this mean monster. Once I realized that no one is writing that script for me, I was able to do both beautifully. So it's fascinating what our brains can do to us.
Sarah HappYeah. I would also say that the people that are concerned that they're not doing a good enough job, whether it's at your business, whether it's with your friends, whether it's as a parent, you're probably trying the most amount. The people that don't think they have it all together, that feel like they don't have all the answers, that worry that go to bed at night thinking, was I a good enough parent today? Was I a good enough boss or co-worker or friend? You're probably trying really hard because you care that much. I think we all need to go easy on ourselves. We all need to go probably easier than we do on ourselves, at whatever stage in life you're at.
Jodi KatzSo let's shift gears and talk about glamor. I don't know why I associate your brand with glamor, because I don't know that that's a word you use, but I feel like there's a glamorous aspect to it. Am I right?
Sarah HappThere is. And it's so funny. I was just telling Jodi before this that I'm under the weather today. So I'm like, no makeup, my hair in a bun. That's what I've got going on. But what I will always have, the one thing I can nail even on a sick day is my lips. I care so much about lip care that my lips will always be scrubbed and glossy. And I love the word glamor because I think lip products, they are a very quick fix. Does beauty fix every problem? Absolutely not. Can beauty give you a really quick feeling of confidence? Yes.

So I was on a call right before this, a finance call. And before I talked to you and sat down over here, I scrubbed my lips, put on some lip gloss and it was that one thing that just kind of boosted me up and got me ready for this. So I think that, yes, I love the idea of glamor. I also love the idea, though, of attainability. We want everyone to know that whether you're a glamor girl, you're a beauty junkie. One of my favorite accounts on Instagram is dirty boys get clean. So Matt, who runs that, he's the ultimate beauty boy. Whether you're that or whether you are a girl who wears no makeup, a guy who wears no makeup, it's not your priority, what we can do is give you really good lips. Everyone can scrub their lips and feel better. Everyone can swipe on the little bit of lip slip and feel better. We can do that for you. And it can be a no makeup, no glam day. Or we can give you the full glam with three lip steps, and then you can go to your wedding.
Jodi KatzSo let's talk about leadership. You wrote to us that you trust your team to get their work done. And what I equate that to is treating your team like they're adults. So tell me what your leadership philosophy is when it comes to trusting your team.
Sarah HappOkay. So my leadership style comes from two things, hiring people that are smarter than me, or if I can't afford those people, having them as advisors, and hiring people that fill the gaps that I know I have. One of my weaknesses is math and finance. It is very hard for me. I am a writer. I can mix color all day. I can create beauty products in my kitchen all day, all night. Looking at a spreadsheet, for me, and learning our numbers is difficult. My brain just processes things differently. So what do I do? I hire really good accountants. And I hire people that love spreadsheets. And I have a president of our company who lives and breathes all the things that I'm not great at. So I think it's a matter of knowing what you're good at, knowing what you're bad at, and hiring appropriately. Or surrounding yourself appropriately with people that fill those gaps.
Jodi KatzSo my last question for you is a fun one. Your best friends, what do they think is the coolest part about your job?
Sarah HappSo my girlfriends love testing new products with me. And it's really fun. So if you come to my house, even pre-COVID, like right now my house is my office. If you come to house, I probably have samples that aren't going to come out for two years or three years or six months. And I want really good feedback from my friends who are deeply honest. A lot of them do own their own beauty brands. So they know exactly what I'm doing. And it is so fun testing stuff out on them and with them. And they are a very different group of females. Some love beauty, some don't. But I get this great feedback and this great consensus.

I also do that, I have a little girl, she's seven. She is very much a part of our company. She's actually a shareholder. And she tests everything. And her little friends come over and they test everything. And that is really a fun thing to do with people. And it brings me so much joy to R&D, basically research and develop with real people who are my friends, who will give me honest feedback. And they get a real kick out of it. And I do too, because it's valuable for me. And for them, it's just fun to see what's coming in six months, a year, three years, whatever it is. So I think that's really fun.

There's actually a product out. We have a lip illuminator that my little Julia, she's seven, when she was probably four or five, we mixed it together in our kitchen. And this was, whatever, 14 years into the company, we have labs. We have chemists. But Julia and I mixed it together with eye shadow and pigments and our lip slip and various oils that I had around the house. And now we sell it. Obviously, it doesn't come from my kitchen. But Julia and I made it. And I still have, in our office, the little paper plates and the bowls that we made it with. So that kind of stuff, the creative stuff, is the most fun part of my job. And it's the most fun to share with my friends.
Jodi KatzSo Sarah, the idea that your daughter's a shareholder in the company is so cool. I don't even know how to do that, but I want to make my kids shareholders in my company.
Sarah HappSo here's the story, the real story. And I share this because I think there's a perception in social media where everyone's life looks really awesome. The real story is that I am divorced from Julia's dad. So she's seven. We were college sweethearts at USC. We got a divorce when she was a year and a half, which is very young, by divorce standards. But we realized then that we were truly meant to be best friends and not married. And we were a stronger team than we were a couple. So we got divorced. So our whole life became now let's be partners, and let's be about this little baby girl that we both love more than anything in the whole universe.

So in the divorce, he owned 10% of my company because he helped me start it. We've been together since we were 20. And he was there for all the nitty gritty. He owned 10% of my company. And then the divorce, my divorce attorney suggested, she said, why don't we have him transfer his shares to Julia, because it's all about her now, right? And he was like, absolutely. So it's in her name. And she is the second largest shareholder.
Sarah Happ
Jodi KatzI love that. Then it's so sweet.
Sarah HappYeah. And I also want to share with people that our divorce was not fun. It wasn't. But I love him dearly. And it's been six years now. And we've done all the therapy and all the work. And he's truly my best friend. He's coming over tonight. I love his new girlfriend. It's Julia's half birthdays. So he's bringing cake. It can be done. It can take some time and work, but it can be done. But yeah, that's how Julia got her 10%. Her dad gave it to her.
Jodi KatzSo thank you for sharing your journey, your personal journey. And I think it's so relevant because we are human beings. And our work and our personal life get intermixed, especially as we're entrepreneurs and running businesses. There are things that happen in our lives that are not the actual work, but they impact the way we see the world. And I think it's so important to honor those. And people on our show have been really transparent about challenging situations in their lives. And that's the whole reason I started the show, is so that we're not all marketing robots, that we all get to know each other in a deeper way, in a more meaningful way than just a resume on LinkedIn.
Sarah HappHundred percent. And I think that's one of the kindest things we can do for each other, regardless of what your wheelhouse is. It's just to share your stories. And it normalizes things for you. We can just normalize things for each other and say, hey, I've been through this too. Or maybe you wouldn't get that from the Sarah Happ Instagram feed. But come over to Sarah Happ herself, and I will absolutely document the fact that the other day my boyfriend jeans ripped because I've outgrown them in COVID. I was at school dropping off my little girl and I did that pull up thing that you have to do when your jeans don't fit. And they used to be boyfriend jeans, which meant they were baggy. They're not anymore. And I ripped them. And I was like, wow, double whammy, my boyfriend jeans split.

So, I'll share that on Instagram. And it's so gorgeous. People light up my DMS and they're like, girl, I don't even wear Spanx anymore because my Spanx don't fit. So I just love our little community that we've built and I try to be transparent. And also, Jasmine will tell you, she sees me on calls like this. I filter stuff when I want to see myself with long eyelashes. So I do that too. I think we're all just doing our best. I think the kindest thing we can do is just share our stories, share information the way you do on this podcast, and normalize stuff for each other.
Jodi KatzWell, Sarah, thank you so much for sharing all this and for sharing your wisdom with my listeners today.
Sarah HappOh Jodi. Thank you so much. I just think, first of all, it's the best name. And you are a true journalist at heart, and a true researcher. And I really respect what you do. And I think your audience is getting some super cool content from some very, very wonderful people. So thank you for including me in the mix.
Jodi KatzThank you, Sarah. I think I'll call you when I'm having a down day, so you can cheer me up.
Sarah HappGirl, I might be having a down day too, and maybe we'll just have to Postmates donuts. Only I might be having a great day and I'll lift you up or vice versa. I don't know. I have no answers. But I will make sure your lips are smooth. That I will do.
Jodi KatzAnd for our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Sarah. Please subscribe to our series on iTunes. And for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram at Where Brains Meet Beauty Podcast.
AnnouncerThanks for listening to Where Brains Meet Beauty®, with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.
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