Episode 171: Yve-Car Momperousse, Founder and CEO of Kreyol Essence

As the CEO and Founder of Kreyol Essence, Yve-Car Momperousse is changing the way people see Haiti and challenging the beauty standards that have traditionally taught women that natural hair isn’t beautiful. She’s passionate about making a tangible mark in the world, creating a blueprint for poverty alleviation through sustainable work, starting in Haiti.

Dan Hodgdon
AnnouncerWelcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty®, hosted by Jodi Katz, founder and creative director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi KatzHey, everybody. It's Jodi Katz, your host of Where Brains Meet Beauty podcast. Thanks for tuning in. This week's episode features Yve-Car Momperousse. She's the founder and CEO of Kreyol Essence and if you missed last week's episode, it featured Priya Rao. She's the Glossy executive editor and the host of the Glossy Beauty podcast. Hope you enjoy the shows.

Hey everybody. I am so excited to be here with Yve-Car Momperousse. She is the founder and CEO of Kreyol Essence, and welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty®.
Yve-Car MomperousseThank you so much for having me, Jodi. I'm so excited we can talk today.
Jodi KatzI know this is so great. Okay. So I want to make sure I got your last name pronunciation, right? Mom peruse.
Yve-Car MomperousseYep. You got it.
Jodi KatzPerfect. Okay. And Yve told me that sometimes she can be Yve or Yve-Car. So today we've chosen Yve. So if anyone else is calling Yve after this, you can call her Yve or Yve-Car. So I'm going to have a little bit of fun with you today because we had a really great conversation in our intake call. And I'm going to remind you of something that you said to me. You ready for it?
Yve-Car MomperousseI'm ready.
Jodi KatzOkay. During our call, you told me that you were in the market for a husband-
Yve-Car MomperousseThank you.
Jodi KatzAnd I don't know that I've ever started any of my other calls off with this, but this is the essence of when the brand was getting founded, so I thought it would be like a really fun way to talk about the journey here. So what does that mean? You were in the market for a husband.
Yve-Car MomperousseSo, there's a certain age where women tend to get that fever, that itch if you will, to find a husband and settle down and I had my itch and I said, "If I'm going to find a husband, I'm going to this event" I asked my hairdresser to straighten my hair. I had this big fro and she did a great job. And as a girl on a mission, the good news is I found the husband, Stefan, which you saw him here helping me set up.
Jodi KatzHi, Stefan.
Yve-Car MomperousseShe says hello, babe. And he's also the COO and co-founder of Kreyol Essence. But the bad news is my hair all fell out after getting it straightened that day. And like any good millennial, the first thing I did was cry. And then the next thing I did was call my mom and asked her, "What's that oil you used to use in my hair when I was growing up, that pretty much solved all of our problems?"

And she told me it was a Haitian Castro oil. I went to the stores in Philadelphia searching, but everything that I found on shelves had hex and bleach and other additives. So I begged her to send me some from her Haiti stash, which she did. And it's the immigrant pile that you can't find readily available in the U.S. and when she did, I said, "I should start a business out of this," and I was joking. And she said, "Actually, that's a great idea." And when we thought about our supply chain, the fact that we would have to work with hundreds of farmers, women, as well as to be able to introduce and help people discover the beauty of Haiti, and I'm a product junkie, I love beauty products. That is the beginning of Kreyol Essence.
Jodi KatzSo I love that this story is about looking for a husband, but it's really about your hair, right? So why we need to explore this, and I'm not a trained therapist, but I just love to go down the rabbit hole. Why, when you are on your journey to find your true love, did you think that straightening your hair was important?
Yve-Car MomperousseAnd Jodi, it's such a profound question. And no one has ever asked me that after I told the story, but around that time and still today, women, particularly women of color feel that it's easier to find a mate and attract someone when your hair is straight. And the idea that in order to be presentable and suitable and look your best that your hair had to be straightened for it, subconsciously I didn't think about it at the time, but that's exactly what I was exhibiting. What society had taught me years on end is that, well, if you want to look your best and straighten your hair.
Jodi KatzWas that United States society telling you to straighten your hair, or was that Haitian society too also tell you to straighten your hair?
Yve-Car MomperousseBoth. The world tells us to straighten our hair all the time. The idea that a woman is more attractive when her hair is straight. And when you think about Eurocentric standards of beauty, it's all about having straight hair, being a certain size, even certain skin colors. It really goes deep into what is it that's portrayed as beautiful every single day. And textured hair is actually still a very new phenomenon for people to celebrate and love. And the idea of just being who you are and kind of what grows out of your hair your head, whether it's sticking to the grays or loving your body as is, if you're not a size zero. These are all things that one has to grapple with. And in society and I think you get an extra layer if you are a woman of color. And then when you start getting into the sub heritage, such as being Haitian American, which is what I am.
Jodi KatzSo like your mom, your aunt, your grandma, would they have been straightening their hair when you were a kid?
Yve-Car MomperousseAbsolutely. So we all grew up... particularly for special events, which not finding a husband, but it's Easter. And if you are going to a communion, you straighten your hair for those special occasions. There was something special about getting the hot comb, which is a comb that would literally be put on fire, if you would think about it. And then after that, or if you go to the salon, it's put into an oven that is made for professionals and then greased or a scalp oil and oil is added to your hair. So think about it. You're frying your hair to be straight, which is not that different than what often is done with a blow dryer and a flat iron. It's just at different temperatures.
Jodi KatzRight? It's another layer of thinking about like I could cook chicken in a pan with oil and heat. And you're basically, I mean, I guess, boy, I know blow drying and hot tools are not great for your hair. But adding that oil element is, I would imagine, taking the damage to a new level.
Yve-Car MomperousseRight. Depending on the level of heat and how much oil, you are literally frying your hair. And that's why the natural movement for women of color, especially as it relates to their hair and moving away from what they call perms are really straighteners. There's a documentary by Chris Tucker, where he shows this chemical that's placed on the hair. It's put on a soda bottle and the soda bottle just disintegrates. And this is what we were putting on our scalp and our hair, all for the love of beauty and that joy to either attract the opposite sex or make sure that you fit into society.
Jodi KatzWhen you started choosing to wear your hair natural, curly, did your mom and your aunts and all the family that like you always wanted to see straight hair for these special occasions. Did they kind of rebel against you on this idea?
Yve-Car MomperousseReally good question. Another one, I don't get asked very frequently. Yes they did. I, and this was my second time going natural. I went natural before it was even popular in my teens. And they thought I was going through a depression. When you stop straightening your hair, all of a sudden there's a psychological reason for it. They were wondering if I was just going through a phase, if you will. And it was very uncomfortable for them to decide that I would not straighten my hair and keep up with the looks du jour. But that also went from me also deciding for a while, I wasn't going to wear makeup. I wasn't going to wear pants. I was also going through just this process of loving myself as is and simplicity. And so all of it probably freaked them out, particularly given my age. But then years later, they all did the same thing.
Jodi KatzSo let's go back in time because you gave me so much incredible storytelling about your ambitions and dreams. When I asked you what'd you want to be, when you grew up, you told me-
Yve-Car MomperousseA teacher.
Jodi KatzTeacher. Right. So I love this because I love to draw a line to where we are now, and you are a teacher now, through products, but I love that. You told me that this time period, when you were having conflict and you went to your curly, natural hair, it was a time where you're trying to be vulnerable and find real relationships in school. Can you take us back to that time period and what was going on inside of you?
Yve-Car MomperousseSure. So I think, and if I recall our conversation, because it was just so in-depth, I was probably in the sixth or seventh grade and of course it's very odd. And especially at that time frame to decide to go natural and do all these things that I said I was doing such as not wearing pants, jewelry, things that normal kids do. And-
Jodi KatzSorry, did you say pants?
Yve-Car MomperousseMm-hmm (affirmative) Correct. Because part of... So Pentecostal is what I grew up, or I shouldn't even say grew up. It is the religion that attracted me. And part of that belief was this concept of being as simple as possible and taking away all things that could distract and that are not naturally you. So the pants thing, it's kind of an interesting thought process. I don't actually abide by that now, but I think what it did teach me is how much society balks against things that are different or against things that you don't see people do every single day, because it was quite... I had to have so many conversations around my hair and my clothes. Why I don't wear makeup, why I don't wear jewelry and folks trying to understand who I am and in an effort to connect with folks, trying to break that down for them, they weren't always receptive to it.

So again, it taught me how do I stand on my own when no one is around me? How do I find inner strength and inner joy with who I am? And then how do I find peace around all of that, when essentially, especially as a team, school, home, everyone around me, thinks I'm just this weirdo.
Jodi KatzRight. So that's a time period, like it's middle school, age, time period, where there's a whole lot of trying to understand self. And in my professional experience of watching teen movies and once being a teen, it's a time period where you want to be just like everybody else, but you don't want to be like anybody else, right? There's this real tension between these two forces and to be like everybody else and to be like, I need to have the same hair clips in the same backpack and the same kind of shoes. But then there's that inner conflict to be independent and my own person. And then how does that tension work with those friends? Because then when you wear a different hat and everyone's like, "Why are you wearing that hat?" But I want to wear that hat. That hat was in the closet because nobody likes my hat. There's too much attention on my hat.
Yve-Car MomperousseRight. So it's just like, I love teen movies. I actually just want...
Jodi KatzI just totally been to a teen show on Netflix called Outer Banks, which is like, amazing. If you love teen-
Yve-Car MomperousseI'm going to check it out. Sea names is always great to watch because it helps you think through. I mean, often I say we're often still fighting and dealing with our inner child. And often when we watch adults act, it's not that different than teenagers. There's always things coming up. So I always think it's a good, healthy exercise to watch teen movies and really reflect why do we do the things that we do?
Jodi KatzSo I love this because you were choosing this path that you had to be brave about. Right? And probably felt a little alone in. Were you able to find your people during that time period?
Yve-Car MomperousseI was. So, before I went through my, I guess, a spiritual awakening, it's because my mom and I had so much tension at home. So when she didn't know what else to do with me, someone said, "There's this youth group and there's this lady that's really good with kids." She had no idea why this lady was good with kids. So she was like, "I'm dropping you off there and I'll come pick you up. I don't know, at five o'clock." And to her chagrin, but also her joy, it was this youth group that I completely felt comfortable in. There were other young women there. It was mostly women who also were going through their own journey and trying to find self and try to be true to self. And I don't know at that young age, we just had so much feeling, so many things that we were trying to work through.

And we had each other as a support network. It was a safe environment. And we also had an opportunity to explore being committed to something larger than us. And in that regard, it was spirituality. And also how do we serve others in the world? Which I never thought about that Jodi, until you said that. So those were my people, but I only got to see them once a week, sometimes twice. So, and there was no WhatsApp group back then. So during the week at school was tough, but I always have them to lean on for us to talk about what is our experience. How do we support one another? And then we were also kids. So we laughed, we joked and ate lots of good Haitian food.
Jodi KatzThat's awesome. So tell me what your mom's reaction was because she sought help and support through this youth group where then you're like not doing this to my hair anymore. Right. Let's forget about the pants and the jewelry. I'm not straightening my hair anymore. What kind of added conflict did that create in your relationship at that time?
Yve-Car MomperousseSo I think for her, all of a sudden she felt A, that her child belonged to someone else. Like there was another mother because she's like, "Oh, you trust this woman. You talked to her, you guys are connecting in a way that I don't understand." And I think there was also that added, I call it the Haitian expectation that your child does what you tell them to do. And that's why she brought me to the youth group really is to kind of straighten me up if you will, and get me back to that expectation that kids are kids, they follow the rules and in Haiti and in the time that she grew up, you wear ribbons and are just the most pleasant child and do whatever your parents want up until you're about 25 and have your own kids you're married off. So to have this teenager being her own person was I think very scary for her and she's a type A personality, which is where I get it from and not being able to chart my path. I think she was scared and it was scary for her.
Jodi KatzSo, to a seventh grader, hair isn't always a symbol of inner strength. Do my friends [inaudible 00:16:17]. Am I doing what the YouTubers' doing? I guess, for some kids does the gender I'm interested in like my hair? Right? It could mean a lot of things, but I don't know. It's not usually the nose ring or the piercing or the tattoo kind of rebellion. So it's so interesting that you chose hair as a way to say, "This is who I am." And then years later built a brand to help support women take care of their hair.
Yve-Car MomperousseBut I think it's actually... That's not factual because if you think about when people dye their hair, that's a big statement.
Jodi KatzYeah, that's true. I forgot about... I think that in my mind, maybe because I'm in the beauty industry, dying hair pink as a sixth grader is like, "Oh, okay, that's fine." Like it doesn't... To me it doesn't like-
Yve-Car MomperousseBut if you think about it back in the day, a parent would be like, "My child is now engaging in drugs and violence," or what have you. What are you a punker? What's happening that you have pink hair. And I went to this interesting seminar about hair, because at first I actually thought it was more around women of color, particularly when you start thinking about the black community, because hair means a lot. Hair speaks about your status, the type or texture of your hair. There's such a word that was prominent in African-American communities, such as good hair. So if you had kinkier hair, meaning your hair didn't curl up and it was just like this big puff, that wasn't celebrated. That's being now. So it's never been just hair.

But then I also went to this workshop where members of the Native American Indian Community were talking about what their hair means to them and someone who was bullied and had their hair cut. And what that meant for them, because hair is considered a sign of strength and glory and what the religious connotation was there for her. And then I heard people talking about the coloring and there were just all these people that hair meant something so different from them. And then if you think about the cancer patient. What happens when they lose their hair and going through the process of wearing wigs? Hair is often associated with femininity. So it's never, I think just hair. I think it means different things to different people and different communities have different relationships with hair.
Jodi KatzAnd before you started the brand, did you have a job in hair?
Yve-Car MomperousseNo, absolutely not. So, my background is actually in nonprofit management and you can look all across the different jobs I've had, whether I've been the project coordinator for New Jersey Immigration Policy Network, or if I've worked at Cornell University and the University of Pennsylvania, which are esteemed universities in their business department, if you will, being alumni affairs to figure out how do you keep those who have graduated connected to the university and having strong relationships and donating, all of it has been around service. And I think also making sure that those who do not have a voice, that there is someone speaking up for them or with them and making sure that there's a space at the table for them, in these institutions. So at Cornell, I was the Director of Diversity in Alumni Affairs. So I think that's mostly what my background is focused on. And really, I was in the school of government at Penn and I really was on the government track, if you will.
Jodi KatzOkay. So, is this another moment for your mom and your aunts and everyone to be like, "What are you doing?"
Yve-Car MomperousseAbsolutely. So here I am, I've achieved the six-figure dream, something that my parents have never made and I am secure, I'm stable. And then I tell them, I am quitting my job to start a brand focused on products from Haiti. That did not go over well. My dad, still today, I don't know if I told you, he still asks every day, "Is the business doing okay? Are you guys still selling? Are people still buying?" He's still visibly and genuinely worried. So that not go well. Now my mom is in business and she's a consummate business person. And after she thought about it, she actually was the one who encouraged me to continue on and she's a risk taker. So it was interesting to have that dichotomy where my mom was like, "I think you can make this work." She was the one who took the first trips with me to Haiti to talk to the women and win their trust on how to make the oil.

She gave me ideas and thoughts around when I should focus if she noticed that I was drifting and my dad actually is the one... He's a teacher. He has six siblings that he had to take care of, so this idea that I could make the decision that I was going to start a business because I wanted to, and he's a math teacher, but he loved comic books and he writes, and he's just one of these interesting folks who, for work is very scientific and mathematical, but what gives him joy is the arts and creativity. And that was always a tension for him. And I think it was interesting for me to just decide I was going to do what I love and what I felt passionate about.
Jodi KatzWell, I want to back up a little bit, because you talked about manufacturing in Haiti. So you told me that your commitment was finding out how you can create a profitable business in a poor country. So share with me the thought process journey in getting to the place where you're working with people on beauty.
Yve-Car MomperousseSure. So, in addition to that hair catastrophe and I talked about the supply chain for Kreyol Essence, the thing that really gets me up in the morning is, am I making a tangible mark in the world? And are there people that I can provide some service for? And Haiti is often known as the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere for a number of reasons but one of the things that we don't do is we don't export anything. We pretty much bring everything in. So that was one way we thought about, "How do we help the GDP of the country," is to actually export things and do so in a manner that allows us to respect the producer and the farmers by not cheapening the product by making sure it's kept authentic and being very visible around it being made in Haiti because a country has to brand itself.

Often when people see me on vacation, they're like, "Where are you? Jamaica?" And I'm like, "No, this is Haiti." So even branding the country and associating it with beauty where you don't think about negativity, you think about the biodiversity in Haiti, which most people don't know about. It's one of the most bio-diverse countries in the Caribbean. When you're looking at our beaches and in our formulas, it's so rich in that it's helpful for people to have a different relationship with Haiti versus just [inaudible 00:23:45]. The other thing is that the cycle of donations. It's one that keeps people down. And when you give someone a dollar and they don't have a job the next day, they're going to need to come back to you for that dollar. So that idea that through our business, that we can create work that's sustainable, not a project that's going to be here for a year or two, or you have Anderson Cooper or Sean Penn, someone coming in, which they all do great work in terms of visibility, but something that's going to last, whether the world is looking or not, is where there can be fair exchange.

And there's nothing like our great Haitian castor oil or Haitian moringa oil to hook someone in. And that's how you create work in the country. So, that's really what keeps me passionate. In addition to great beauty products is the fact that we can help to change an entire country and also create a blueprint for poverty alleviation around the world. Because as we're successful, this becomes a blueprint that people can follow and build upon for years to come. And I'm excited about that.
Jodi KatzAll right. So this is such an interesting thought. In addition to branding the hair products, you're really trying to move the conversation around Haiti as a country forward, right? That's a heavy lift, but you can do that through beauty. I see how those lines were connected.
Yve-Car MomperousseYes. And I can't say, I wish I could say I was a genius and it just happened. I had this whole master plan and it all came together in a blink of an eye, but it's just the more that we did with the company, the more we shared our story with people that the line started to make sense. And even now, right, there's the Haiti piece and as we're looking at racial equity in the world with the Black Lives Matter Movement, well, as we were looking at what do we do? What is our piece in the conversation? Our products are focused for those with dry hair, dry skin and textured hair. So we have a very diverse group of folks who use our products from white to Asian, to Latino, to Black. But the idea that we are also focused on dealing with dryness, that means there is no way you're not going to see people of color represented and be a focus in our brand in clean beauty, which we are a clean beauty brand. We're a wellness brand. There's a lack of products that are centered and focused for these communities.

So when we start thinking about racial equity as well, Kreyol Essence by nature of who we are and being inclusive, that's what we've always done, but here's another social inflection point that a beauty brand, I think, has a lot to play in and has a way to help shape that conversation by virtue of who we are seeing, she's important.
Jodi KatzGreat. I mean, think about France. We associate France with beautiful fragrances, right?
Yve-Car MomperousseYes.
Jodi KatzSo it's the country of origin, whether it's the ingredient or the innovation is as important to the product story is the group in the jar. Right?
Yve-Car MomperousseExactly.
Jodi KatzThis is so fascinating. So, I love to hear about progress. So, when it comes to creating this manufacturing and economies of shipping products out of the country, instead of in the country, what's the one piece of progress that you've noticed that you're most proud of from the past few years of doing this?
Yve-Car MomperousseI guess there are maybe... I'll say three of them, three quick ones. One, in the country itself, this idea that Haitian castor oil was often thought of as something that only poorer folks used. And even if you were at a particular economic bracket, you knew its virtue. So everyone kept it in their cabinet for when they were sick. It was medicinal. That's when you got to it where it's kind of like, "Oh, I'm sick, bring it on, bring it on." And now to see how it's revered and how folks appreciate the product, both in country and here, it changes the dynamics of what's luxury, what works and how we define who brings about those innovations. The other thing I should say is I'm a woman running a manufacturing facility, farming, exporting and as the head of a multi-million dollar company.

That's not normal in Haiti. So when I go onto the field and the men are coming to discuss with the business owner details, I'll be with my staff and they'll walk right past me. They'll just go to someone else. And my team will often say, "Well, you need to talk to her. She owns the company. She's the boss." Or they'll ask for final approval and just the look on their face, that again, this dark skinned girl, who's young, who's probably old enough to be their daughter, it just completely confuses folks. And I do get a chuckle out of that. But what I love is when I get girls who say, "You look just like me. So if you can do this, I certainly can." And I know that feeling of seeing someone who represents me or has a story similar to me and who looks like me. It's just something so powerful about what you will take on in the world with just knowing that fact.

So I'm really proud of that. The other thing I'm proud of is to see Kreyol Essence on mainstream shelves. We just did a partnership in a launch with Ulta Beauty and where I thought it was 1,300 stores, we're at 1,600 stores and we're sold out and we're working really hard to get products back on shelf. And we shattered all of our numbers in the first few weeks of launch. And I'm extremely proud of that because I never wanted the company, because we have such a social mission to be seen as less than a real business. I'm looking at my numbers, I'm looking at my P&L. I'm looking at my gross margins. I was looking at the business side of the business, just like any other entrepreneur, but often when you have such a strong social mission, they're like, "Oh, you're really a nonprofit. You just want to do good in the world. There, there good girl."

Where it's like, "No, I'm just as passionate about scaling and getting to a hundred million as other entrepreneurs in tech and other fields. So, I'm extremely excited to see the business continuing to grow and scale and be profitable as a social business.
Jodi KatzWell, you and I met, I think it was two years ago and I was so excited to meet you then. And I'm super, even more excited because I didn't realize that the product was more than product. I didn't realize it was creating a new form of economy in an impoverished country. I didn't know why you were giving an opportunity to people who've never seen that kind of opportunity in your families or their neighborhoods. So, it's really cool to hear your spirit and your ambition. It's also so cool that you did find that husband and then he's part of the business too. That's awesome.
Yve-Car MomperousseAnd I could not do it without him. And I have to say, Stefan is God sent in so many ways, because I'm a little crazy. And he keeps me grounded. But also when we had to decide our channel strategy for the business, he was bullish that we go masstige prestige and not mass, which was an interesting also process for me to get to, because I never saw products for me outside of Walmart, Target, Target. We all love a good Target run and beauty supply stores. So when he said, "The first place I see us is Credo And Detox Market," and for us to be on all shelves and Goop and these amazing retailers who was going to treat our community in the way that we felt that she should be treated. And mostly because I never ended up not having hair issues. Here I am working at Cornell.

I'm speaking to millionaires, billionaires and raising money. I need to look presentable and I could never find the right hairdresser when I was in the city for my hair. I was always having to do things myself. And he was just like, "You deserve to be able to walk into a salon and groom and find clean beauty products, just like your colleagues do, so this is the channel that we need to focus on." And that's another point of contention where our community was just like, "Why aren't you at Target? Why aren't you at Walmart? Why isn't that where you're going?" And he's really the one I credit for seeing where we needed to go.
Jodi KatzI love it. Okay. My last question for you of course, can be about your mom. Does she still straighten her hair?
Yve-Car MomperousseShe does not, unless it's a special occasion and I will say, we're not anti-straightening hair. It's something we talk a lot about with our tribe, which is the Kreyol Essence community. I don't believe in hair shaming. And I think it can go either way. It's just kind of in the clean beauty industry where it's kind of we will not use phenoxyethanol at all. Well now we're like, "Okay, well maybe less than 1% and silicones are horrible, but well, but maybe in certain skincare products where it needs to do certain things." So I think like anything in life, it's moderation and what we talk about is healthy hair and making sure that if you were going to straighten it, make sure that you protect. Make sure you're not doing it too frequently and that you're just using good measures, good technique, as well as good products to support the overall health of your hair, your skin, and you as an individual. So, she does do it from time to time, but not every day and not frequent.
Jodi KatzI don't want you to think that I'm shaming anybody. I just want people to move through the world feeling as tied to who they truly are as possible. If that means straight or curly or zigzag or wherever they're going. I lived for many years doing what was expected of me without actually having any true feelings. I buried them down. So I just love it when people get to be who they are.
Yve-Car MomperousseYes. There's nothing more powerful, beautiful than to see someone feel peace in their skin and in whatever way that is. As you know, I just want people to be healthy to do that.
Jodi KatzWell, this is so amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us today. This is amazing.
Yve-Car MomperousseThank you so much for having me and for all your great insights, Jodi. I'm going to have to call you more so you can analyze my life and decisions.
Jodi KatzAnd like what teen TV shows I'm watching.
Yve-Car MomperousseExactly.
Jodi KatzAnd for our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Yve. Please subscribe to our series on iTunes and for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram at Where Brains Meet Beauty Podcast.
AnnouncerThanks for listening to Where Brains Meet Beauty with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.

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