EPISODE 151

When you first read the name, Thrive Causemetics, you know that this is a different sort of beauty company. A former makeup artist, founder and CEO Karissa Bodnar launched her company with dual purposes: to create quality, vegan, skin-loving makeup and skincare and to support organizations that help women. Both missions have equal importance—for every product sold, another is donated. The inspiration for this makeup/ movement is a poignant personal story of love, loss and resilience.

 

AnnouncerWelcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty™ hosted by Jodi Katz, founder and creative director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi KatzHey everybody, it's Jodi Katz, your host of Where Brains Meet Beauty™ podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in. As you know, we're all working for home. For today's episode we recorded it over Zoom. It features Karissa Bodnar. She is the founder and CEO at Thrive Causemetics. And if you miss last week's episode, it featured Blushington CEO Natasha Cornstein. I hope you enjoy the show.

Hey everybody, this is our third recording of our podcast via Zoom. I'm excited to be sitting with Karissa Bodnar. She is the founder and CEO of Thrive Causemetics. Welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty™.
Karissa BodnarThank you so much for having me.
Jodi KatzIt's so exciting to do this with you. You're our third recording like this of the day so I hope it is flawless. We've learned a lot recording this way. We're usually in a studio which looks like this picture behind me.
Karissa BodnarYeah, it's beautiful.
Jodi KatzThank you. We miss it because we're all working from home right now.
Karissa BodnarI know. We will have to definitely get together once this is all done.
Jodi KatzAre you working from home?
Karissa BodnarYeah. Thrive Causemetics actually went remote many weeks ago at the first signs of this. I am actually calling you from Bellevue, Washington. I'm originally from Washington. We have offices in Los Angeles, we have offices in Florida. We also have offices in Washington. And our distribution is in Memphis.
Jodi KatzYou said you had kids, right?
Karissa BodnarNo, two dogs.
Jodi KatzOh, two dogs.
Karissa BodnarTwo rescue dogs.
Jodi KatzOkay, so it's you and the dogs. And how are you passing the time? Other than work?
Karissa BodnarI have been, so something that I have learned over the last couple years is how important exercise is for my mental health. Definitely been exercising. I love to do Peloton. And so I've actually been doing Peloton classes with our customers, which has been super fun to me or for me.
Jodi KatzOh cool.
Karissa BodnarAnd with some of our team members who also have them. It's been, I've been doing that to pass the time. Lots of FaceTime calls with my family. I got my grandpa, Grandpa Gary, who's kind of famous on our Instagram. I got him an iPad before this all happened. And so we've been FaceTiming every day. And so in fact we're FaceTiming after this.
Jodi KatzAh, that's so amazing. Okay. I love that you're doing exercise classes with your customers. That's incredible.
Karissa BodnarIt's so fun.
Jodi KatzIt's such a smart idea.
Karissa BodnarWe've actually been doing them as a team too, every single day we're doing classes as a team as well, just to keep us connected and we're keeping our traditions of today's Turquoise Tuesday so I'm wearing my turquoise. If I'm being honest, I wear turquoise everyday because it's our brand color. But we have this company happy hour every Friday and we do, it's called Thrive O'clock. And so we're continuing to do that virtually and showing baby pictures and then guessing who the baby is. And so, we're definitely doing our best to stay connected.
Jodi KatzMy team, we've been doing a weekly meditation.
Karissa BodnarLove that.
Jodi KatzA 30 minute meditation each week and we actually did invite clients too, but no clients showed up. It's just our team.
Karissa BodnarWell let me know next time, I will totally come. Our chief wellness officer, Erin actually has been leading a weekly meditation and it's, we had to figure out the kinks from an audio perspective, but people love it. Definitely I'll be there. I love it.
Jodi KatzOkay, well we look forward to it. Okay, so let's get into you. This show is all about journey, personal career journey. And when I asked you what you want to do when you grew up, you told me?
Karissa BodnarA beauty product developer.
Jodi KatzOf course. How does a kid decide that they want to be a beauty product developer?
Karissa BodnarI grew up in the middle of nowhere in a town called Stanwood Washington. I grew up on five acres. I didn't have cable TV. Internet wasn't really in every household at that point. And so in the 90s I was there with my animals on the farm and having fun outside and being able to explore. I've always been a creator. When you live on a dirt road, a lemonade stand is not the most lucrative business to start. I learned that I needed to be a little bit more creative if I wanted to sell different products to my three neighbors that I had. It was really I think, when I started having an interest in beauty myself and didn't have access to a makeup store, I couldn't go to the Clinique counter because it was over an hour away and so I really think that that was what spurred my passion for creating a beauty product specifically.
Jodi KatzWell, when I was a little kid, I wanted to be in archeologist.
Karissa BodnarI love that.
Jodi KatzAnd I still feel like, well I don't want to go back to school, but I still have a passion for it. But I didn't do anything with that. It was that or own a jewelry store. Also, something I didn't choose to pursue.
Karissa BodnarOh, I love that though. Archeologist, that's so cool. Have you been to Pompei?
Jodi KatzI have not.
Karissa BodnarOh my gosh, okay.
Jodi KatzNo, no. I have, I have. No Pompei I've been to. Yes, I have been to Pompei.
Karissa BodnarI feel as though I'm not an archeologist, but I do feel like it's an archeologist stream because there's so many fascinating things there.
Jodi KatzYes. We went there and my son was six months old. I don't know what we were thinking.
Karissa BodnarWow, you're brave.
Jodi KatzWe had a very wonderful European vacation with a baby. But yes, we went there and it was incredible. I'd like to do it again. There's a lot of things we'd like to do again. My kids have been watching the Cincinnati Zoo, they do a live stream with different animals each day, and I'm like, oh my God, when this is all over, we're going to the Cincinnati Zoo. That's where we're heading.
Karissa BodnarAbsolutely. I love that. That's so cool.
Jodi KatzOkay, let's get back into it in terms of your journey. You have the aspiration to be a product formulator. How did you make this happen?
Karissa BodnarWell when I was a kid, I would use different, first it started with melting down my sister's crayon, so sorry to my sister for all of the crayons that I ruined. And mixing that with different pigments that I was able to create from what was in my mom's garden. Whether it was dahlia's or roses, breaking those down and putting that into a formula to create a lipstick. And then ultimately I graduated into using real ingredients because I started reading different chemistry books and things like that and learning about how to formulate products. In that way I was very much self taught and I will be honest, a lot of my formulas, I probably had a lot of sympathy purchases at that point in my journey. But the way that I paid for college was by working as a makeup artist.

And so I worked for Sephora actually four or five years and that was how I put myself through school. And after I graduated I was able to still continue working as a makeup artist while I worked for Clarisonic, when we were just a baby brand. And that was such an awesome experience for me. I got to work in product development and when you're in a startup, you're kind of working in every department. And so that was, Clarisonic was my first product development job. I was working on the devices as well as the formulations that went with them and the brush heads.
Jodi KatzThat's an incredible first job out of college.
Karissa BodnarI felt so fortunate. Yeah. In fact I stopped going to school because they hired me before I graduated and so then I just stopped going to class because I was like, this is my dream job. I had to take off a day from work to be able to walk in my graduation, which was just so funny. They didn't make me take PTO and yeah, no, it was an incredible job. And then the brand Clarisonic was actually purchased by L'Oreal. Then I got to go work for them in their luxury division, which was such amazing experience because I was developing beauty products for some of the largest brands in the world and got to work for some incredible women. Carol Hamilton being one of them who's still a mentor of mine today. Definitely loved my journey there as well.
Jodi KatzYou mentioned to me when we talked yesterday that one of your best formulated products when you were a kid was shampoo and conditioner.
Karissa BodnarYes.
Jodi KatzI think your super fans want that product. I think there is an opportunity for you to make something special for them.
Karissa BodnarOh my gosh. Well, and you know what? If we did come out with a shampoo or conditioner, I would probably still use spirulina. Like so many young girls, I bought that boxed hair dye at the drug store and totally fried my hair and my hair literally looked like somebody had lit a match to it. And there was, sulfate free shampoos were not a thing at that point. And so, especially in a small town. That was where I started my own shampoo and conditioner and I found that spirulina, which is so good for us to ingest is also a natural surfactant. And so that was how I started making sulfate free shampoo for myself. Yeah, maybe someday we will have to come out with that.
Jodi KatzYeah, maybe like an anniversary gifts for your like top customers or something.
Karissa BodnarI love it. Yeah, I love that.
Jodi KatzOkay, so back to working at L'Oreal, which is pretty awesome. How did you go from working there to starting your own business?
Karissa BodnarI was actually on a business trip when my close friend Kristy called me and said that she thought she had cancer and we were 23 years old at the time. And when somebody who's 23 years old gets diagnosed with cancer, I guess the way I thought about it was like, well, of course you'll beat this. In fact, I have had other friends that had experienced cancer at a young age and totally beat it. Of course it's scary, but you just believe that they're going to be able to move through it. And with Kristy, unfortunately less than one year later, she was gone.

And it was one of those moments for me where I really thought about what my purpose was because she knew her purpose. While I was hell bent on climbing the corporate ladder, she was teaching English to orphans around the world. And so, it was one of those moments for me where I knew that I wanted to be giving back. And I also wanted to be creating amazing products and I couldn't go work for a brand to like that because it didn't exist. And so that's really where the idea for Thrive Causemetics was born. And from the very beginning, I knew that every time somebody purchased something from us that we would be giving back in some way.
Jodi KatzI didn't honestly know Thrive until getting to meet you yesterday. But now that I've seen what you have built here, it's really astonishing. I meet a lot of founders. And founders before they find, create the brand when they're just creating the brand, five years, 10 years, 20 years. And it doesn't become this. It doesn't become a movement. This is amazing.
Karissa BodnarOh thank you so much. That's very kind of you.
Jodi KatzThere's just not, there's really not a lot of stories like this. You told me, you're a regular girl. You weren't like born into this and you made this happen. Can we just go back in time a little bit? Because I think it's easy to romanticize the entrepreneurial experience when things are going okay. When you grown in scale.
Karissa BodnarAbsolutely.
Jodi KatzBut you told me that, I think it was 2015 or 16 where on one side of it, this business wasn't really viable and on the other side of this dotted line, all of a sudden it was scalable and viable. Take us back to that time in the business' development and what made the difference between just being trying to exist and growing.
Karissa BodnarYeah, absolutely. I started the business out of a one bedroom apartment in Seattle and I didn't have anybody that I could call in the way of an investment or anything like that. I actually worked a full time job to fund the company. And so I didn't know what a venture capitalist was in fact. I really went back to what I knew, which was creating awesome products that I really believed in. And so we struggled for the first year and a half to, I went to every retailer pitching them on our products, nobody was interested. And so I really started to connect with our community online by being vulnerable and sharing what I was going through as a founder. And so our business did not take off instantaneously. We have a product called Overnight Sensation Sleeping Mask. Even though you will get results in one use with Overnight Sensation, there is no such thing as an overnight sensation in business and Thrive Causemetics is absolutely an example of that.

I remember all of the challenges that I had, whether it was having enough money to formulate the products and ultimately produce them or not knowing anything about eCommerce. I was a product person. I didn't know anything about sales. And so it was really through the authentic connection that we had with our customers because it was, we had had celebrities talk about us. We had been on Good Morning America, been in Vogue Magazine, been on the Today Show and we would get spikes in our business, but there was nothing, we didn't have that catalyst moment that really made the business become a viable business until the end of 2016. And it was really when our customers started having a conversation, we posted an organic post on Instagram and Facebook about our eyeliner. And then all of a sudden all of these women started talking about how our eyeliner had changed their life.

And it was, at first it was five women, then it was 10 and it snowballed into thousands of women. And that was really, even though we were a really small business, we had this community that was catapulting us to this multimillion dollar business in a matter of days. And so it was really our Thrive Tribe, that's what we call our community. And they are the ones who have built this brand.
Jodi KatzWhen you were before the eyeliner made a big impact on social in terms of the community having that conversation, were there moments where paying the bills was challenging? Or getting products launched felt impossible?
Karissa BodnarAbsolutely. Yeah. Again, I didn't have any money so I had to, I used my own money to be able to fund the company. And so every product that we launched had to be funded by the sales of the business. And so yeah, we did not have, I launched with one product and it was, because I was running the business out of my apartment, that allowed me, that was a warehouse. The apartment was a warehouse, it was an office, it was a lab for formulating products. And so I didn't have to worry so much about rent for an office, but definitely was concerned about paying rent for myself. I will say that working a full time job, while it was very challenging from a time management perspective. Because I was really transparent with that founder upfront and it wasn't a competitive category, I was able to do both and I would definitely give that advice to somebody who is nervous about starting a business because you just have that extra safety net of, okay, if this doesn't work out, at least I can fall back on that.

But yeah, I was terrified every day. I was fulfilling the orders myself and then walking them up to USPS and putting them in the bin. And it wasn't that long ago. I'll never forget that. And it was definitely a challenge.
Jodi KatzSometimes I have this little bit of financial insecurity PTSD. I have plenty of it right now because of COVID. But before a COVID I'd have these feelings where, a few years ago in the business I was making so little money that just going outside and going to buy an iced tea or I don't know, a snack was like, oh wait, I don't think I really have the money for this iced tea. And this haunts me. Even though like I can go buy an iced tea now, and not have to second guess it, I always still remember where I was. Not that long ago when my kids were little and it was like, ooh, like maybe I won't buy iced tea today. Is there something that sort of follows you around even if it's just a distant shadow that kind of is not, I look at it as a progress meter, but is there something that kind of follows you around in a progress meter sort of way like that from the early days?
Karissa BodnarYes. I did not look at my bank account for a couple years. Of course I looked at Thrive Causemetics' bank account and then ultimately when I just completely depleted that, I also had to deplete my own personal bank account, which again was less than a $100,000. I was 25 years old. And so for me, it's so interesting that you say that about iced tea because for me it's the restaurant bill. It's going to the restaurant and just not having to zero in on every single penny that, how much everything costs and things like that. That for me is definitely something that follows me around. Every time I go out to eat, I'm so thankful that I have enough money to be able to pay for the bill and not be stressed about that. Groceries, same thing. I was so stressed about the grocery bill all the time and I didn't have to worry about hotels because my friends in Manhattan allowed me to sleep on their air mattress. That was really nice. But yeah, it's groceries, food, I guess I must love food.
Jodi KatzThe place you were in where you were working your full time job, making this your second job, packing your own packages, communicating directly with your customers. This is a pretty common entrepreneurial story. But not everybody turns their story into what you've developed. What would be your advice to somebody, especially right now during COVID? I have friends and clients who are anxious. They're small, tiny brands, one woman show and they're trying to find how to be cash rich in this moment. But what kind of advice can carry them through this time period to make them believe that they can do what they want to do?
Karissa BodnarWhat always carried me through was my why behind the business and my why in the beginning and still today is the women that we are helping. I started the business by actually before we ever launched, we donated products and because every time somebody buys something, we donate. And I started with donating products only. And the way that I was able to overcome the fear in those moments at 2:00 AM when I was like, how? We literally had zero sales yesterday. How am I going to make this happen? It was the letters and the phone calls and everything that I heard back from the women who had received our products was what kept me going. And those people, like I remember Stephanie, this person that we donated products to. She said, "The beauty industry needs this, the world needs this and we thank you so much for your support."

And she's this incredible person. But to have a note like that in my kitchen at the time, because I didn't have an office, that was what kept me going. Or someone who I now call my friend, but I didn't know her. I reached out to her. She was in Canada, a breast cancer survivor and donated products. She's now come to countless giving events with us. And she supported me in those moments too. While we have have given now over a $100 million in product and funds to support people, we've gotten so much back as well.
Jodi KatzLet's shift gears a little bit and talk about what's happening now in the world. With COVID, it's really changed the way we all do business. Unfortunately, some of our friends don't have jobs anymore. There's a lot of insecurity and anxiety in the world for people's health and their livelihoods. What is the type of leadership or your leadership style in this moment when it comes to your growing team and your scale business?
Karissa BodnarI think it's really important to be vulnerable. And that's something that I wish that I would've learned five years ago when I was starting Thrive Causemetics. I used to really believe that you have your personality at work and then you have your personality outside of work. But what I've learned over the last few years is the importance of being vulnerable with your team. And it's not like I'm going to get up there and cry every single time that I talk to the team, but I have been really transparent with the team about what we're going through as a business and the ways that we're looking at things. And we went remote right away. That was something that we had not done before.

And so I was like, "Hey guys, we are building this plane as we're flying it so we got to just stick together, provide candid feedback to us as your leadership team so that we can continue to support you." And, we've tried different things as far as increasing our all hands. I mentioned at the top of this, keeping our traditions alive the best we can. But the truth is we're still figuring it out. And I have to say our team has done such an incredible job of coming together during this time. And again, nobody's perfect, but I'm really, really proud of what we've done.
Jodi KatzWhen we were talking yesterday, I mentioned that I'm really into coaching. I have multiple coaches at all times. And that was really a huge shift for me three years ago when I first hired a coach. I went from being super insecure and filled with self doubt and having a lot of ideas in my head but didn't know which ones to pursue, to literally dreams come true for me and my business. Even just having work right now. The fact that my agency is busy, I'm like, okay, this is stressful and intense, but I'm grateful. Coaching and therapy for over 10 years has been really helpful for me. You mentioned that you actually have a staff member who coaches your team. Can you tell us about that?
Karissa BodnarYes. We have a full time therapist on staff who is our chief wellness officer. She was somebody that I saw privately and saw such an impact and it was about three years ago that I started seeing her. Well, no. oh my gosh, three and a half years ago. That's crazy. Erin Brower is somebody who I worked with. She had a very successful practice. She did not need to come work for Thrive Causemetics, but she did a little over two years ago, start working with our team and she has been such a change agent for our company in the way of building our culture and she teaches all of us about healthy communication, recognizing our emotions, and then taking responsibility for our emotions so that then you can ultimately be a more active member in a conversation. And, and so, we're not sitting around and meditating all day or saying kumbaya, but we're being really candid, direct with each other and Erin has made a huge impact on our culture and will continue to.
Jodi KatzI'm hopeful that people, brand owners will take inspiration from this because I do think having this type of coaching and guidance at your fingertips is really the future of business. And I mentioned to you this TV show Billions where there is this therapist character who helps his hedge fund grow.
Karissa BodnarI need to watch the show.
Jodi KatzYeah, it's kind of dark and whatever. But there's Wendy and Wendy takes that role. But, just being able to have someone to talk to you about how to solve problems, how to grow, how to get up on stage if I'm terrified of speaking in front of audiences, how to problem solve, how to kind of erase some of the PTSD from other jobs. These are things that really are essential to us being productive, not just at work but in our lives.
Karissa BodnarAbsolutely.
Jodi KatzI think it's an incredible gift for your team to have this.
Karissa BodnarThank you. And it's been such a gift to me. I used to be anxious about things that now that I look back on, it's just such a waste of energy and such a waste of time. And I've made so many mistakes. I've said things that I shouldn't have said. I have sent emails that I shouldn't have sent, and I still make mistakes. But I think being willing to work on yourself is where all of the growth can happen for you. Yeah, I hope other people do too because it's made such an impact on, we have now over 70 employees and out of all of the perks that we offer at Thrive Causemetics, Erin Brower is number one on the thank you list.
Jodi KatzWell I want to give a shout out to our former intern at Base Beauty, Ruth Meetha. Just joined your team a month ago. That's so cool. And I hope that she's able to Thrive at Thrive.
Karissa BodnarShe is. She is already. She's amazing.
Jodi KatzI told you, and I'm going to say that out loud to everybody. Our business was one version of itself before Ruth Meetha and then she spent the summer with us and then we were a completely different business. It's incredible the impact an intern could have. I'm super glad that she found a home with you.

I just want to switch gears a little bit. We got a lot of questions from fans over social for you. You have a very active fan base. They're really excited to give us questions. Some of them will be a little lighter than talking about COVID, but I think everyone can use a little lightning up in their moments. I love this one from @EmilyMcDonald77 she asked, "Where do you see yourself in 10 years?"
Karissa BodnarOh my goodness. Where do I see, I see animals in my future. I see, I have dreams of having an animal shelter, but I literally think it would be such a failure because I went to go volunteer at an animal shelter and that's how I wound up with Cody, my first rescue. And now I have another dog, Cooper but I would love to have horses and I would love to have kids someday. Maybe in the next 10 years that will happen. I don't know. But I definitely see myself with lots of animals and maybe a rescue.
Jodi KatzThat's so cool. My kids are petitioning consistently for a dog and I just feel like I won my independence. They're 12 and nine so I'm not ready to give it up. But as we're walking around the neighborhood, they keep telling me that our family is not complete.
Karissa BodnarOh my gosh. They are smart. You've raised some smart cookies.
Jodi KatzYep. I'm like, okay, maybe, maybe, maybe, but not now. Okay. @KateMCD7 is asking, "What's one of the mantras you live by?"
Karissa BodnarYou are never too young and you're never too old to be who you always wanted to be. I actually was so insecure about my age until, I don't know, a couple years ago because I was constantly being told that I was too young to do things. And I also think it's the same thing for, I think you look at people like Jennifer Lopez, you look at Madonna, you look at these amazing women who have started businesses in their sixties and seventies and that is my mantra. Absolutely.
Jodi KatzPeople have given you a hard time about your age?
Karissa BodnarAbsolutely. Yeah.
Jodi KatzHow does that come to light?
Karissa BodnarIt's so interesting because I can't tell if it's sexism or ageism, but I actually, when I think about sexism versus ageism, I actually feel like I personally experienced a lot more ageism. I think one is that I look young. Two, I was always very ambitious and wanted to climb that corporate ladder. And so, the way that it showed up at Thrive Causemetics, with outside sources, not people who were necessarily working for Thrive. But sometimes, people who are no longer working for Thrive would say, "You really need an adult in the room." Or, "I will be your training wheels." Yeah. And it was other women sometimes saying that to me. It was men saying that to me. I've been told, "That was the best business pitch that I've ever heard from a woman."

And I was like, "From a woman?" And I grew up in a small town. It was a small conservative town and I never thought that I was less than because I was a woman. And so thankfully my reaction was to just be like, what are you saying? But yeah, I've definitely, and even it's so funny, people who, again, because I'm not a celebrity or an influencer or anything like that, people will be like, are you the intern? Are you, that kind of stuff.
Jodi KatzI'm sorry to laugh. It's real world stuff.
Karissa BodnarIt makes me laugh. Oh no, it totally, it makes me laugh too. And it's one thing that was really interesting, so I just turned 30 last July and what was so funny for me was when I was 29 I was too young to be a CEO. But now that I'm 30 I get told that I look good for my age and I'm like, really? Thanks. But I just have fun with it when people are like, you're a child. I'm like, I am a child. My parents names are Jenny and Steve and I'm 30. Thanks.
Jodi KatzThat's so interesting because I actually make such a point of saying my age and I don't know if I'm doing it because I'm trying to erase, sort of maybe I went through some of what you went through. But maybe just didn't have the awareness level that you have. But I'm always telling people I'm 44. And I guess I told him I was 40, 41, 42. I feel like it's so important to say my age out loud because I don't want to create shame around age.
Karissa BodnarWell, and also 44 is such a cool number.
Jodi KatzIt is a cool number.
Karissa BodnarAbsolutely.
Jodi KatzBut then I'll be 45 and that'll be a cool number too.
Karissa BodnarYeah, no, I love that. And I love the way that, again, women like Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Lopez are changing the conversation. There is no expiration date on women. And when we see that in the world, we see these amazing women. It's like, I'm like, I can't wait to look like J-Lo when I'm 50. You know what I mean? I'm like, and to have accomplished things like her, and I am a super J-Lo fan. But, I just, I love the Jennifer Aniston's of the world. There are so many examples, Oprah, think about Oprah. She just continues to get better and better with time.
Jodi KatzOkay. We have so many good questions. Let me pick my last one for you. Okay. Well, let's talk about product. What's the product that you're most proud of?
Karissa BodnarBuildable Blur CC Cream. I am really proud of Buildable Blur CC Cream because it was one of the first inclusive CC Cream launches that I know of and we worked with our community hand in hand to develop each and every shade. We launched our CC Cream where most brands have five to seven shades, we had 18. And it was by the grace of our community that we were able to create something that was so inclusive. And it also really just represents who our customer is. Our customer base is literally 18 to 80. The teenager can find something that she loves. The aunt can find something she loves. The grandma can. And CC Cream works for all women, all skin types, all skin tones. And that's something I'm really proud of.
Jodi KatzWell thank you so much for sharing your story and your wisdom with us today. I'm so happy to know you now.
Karissa BodnarThank you. I know. I can't wait to get together with you.
Jodi KatzAnd for our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Karissa. Please subscribe to our series on iTunes and for updates about the show. Follow us on Instagram @Where BrainsMeetBeautyPodcast.
AnnouncerThanks for listening to Where Brains Meet Beauty™ with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.
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