Episode 104

Rachel Roff always knew she wanted to be an esthetician. So four days after graduating from college, she was back in the classroom, but this time at esthetic school. During her time there, she noticed how limited treatment options were for people of color. Her efforts to change what she saw as outright prejudice led her to found Urban Skin Solutions Med Spa and later Urban Skin Rx Skincare, both focused on serving a clientele of diverse skin tones. In this episode, hear how recognizing a need for inclusivity allowed her business to grow from a single location med spa to an insider destination with a skincare brand now available at retail powerhouses like Target and Ulta.

AnnouncerWelcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™ hosted by Jodi Katz, Founder and Creative Director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi KatzHey there, it's Jodi Katz, your host of WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™ podcast. Thanks for tuning in and I'm super grateful for your support of our show. This week's episode features Rachel Roff. She's the owner and founder of Urban Skin Solutions and Urban Skin Rx. I first met Rachel last year at Beauty and Money Summit. The next Beauty and Money Summit is on April 25 in Los Angeles. Our podcast is a proud media partner with the event. If you plan on being there, please look for Aleni. She's our executive producer and she'll be at the event.

If you missed last week's episode, it featured Blair James. He's the co-founder of Bondi Sands. I hope you enjoy the shows.
Jodi KatzHey, everybody. It's Jodi Katz. Welcome to this episode of WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™. I am on the line, not sitting next to but on the line with Rachel Roff. She is the founder and CEO of Urban Skin Solutions and Urban Skin Rx. Rachel, welcome to the show.
Rachel RoffHey! Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Jodi KatzI'm so excited for you to be here. We met about six or seven months ago at the New York Beauty and Money Summit. You were a spotlight finalist there and super impressive woman. I was so excited to meet you in person. I'm so grateful that we can have this call today.
Rachel RoffYeah, no. Beauty and Money was a game-changer for myself and my business, the product line Urban Skin Rx. A lot has happened since then, so it's very exciting to reconnect.
Jodi KatzI want to give our listeners a little lay of the land on why things are different today. Typically, I'm sitting next to, in real life, my guest. Today you and I are on the phone. That is because we want to help support the Beauty and Money Summit that's happening in April and you are not in New York, right? Where are you based?
Rachel RoffI'm in Charlotte, North Carolina. The deep south.
Jodi KatzThat's a great town.
Rachel RoffYep. We're probably, I don't think there's too many beauty companies out here. I definitely know we're the biggest company in Charlotte. We're not they typical New York-based beauty company.
Jodi KatzWe wanted to get this podcast recorded so that everybody can hear your story and your experience, being at Beauty and Money Summit. You mentioned to me that you were actually participating in two of the events. Let's start there, and then we'll go backwards. What made you want to submit yourself to be a spotlight finalist?
Rachel RoffI think, like many business owners, my dream is to one day sell my company. It just seemed like the right place to go to start the beginning stages of that process. Even though I don't foresee that happening for many years, it just seemed like that's where the people that you want to get to know from the beauty investment world go, as well as they did offer a class that was kind of just like investment 101. I know nothing about it. I didn't, at the time, know the difference between venture capital firms and private equity firms, and the strategic. I didn't know how to categorize the three.

I didn't know anything about seed A, seed B. I was very green. If you asked me about formulas and aesthetics and marketing, I can go on and on, but just investment wasn't my thing. I just wanted to go there to really educate myself and network and just start to let people know that my company is out there and one day we are interested in selling.
Jodi KatzYou mentioned not knowing anything about the finance side of that business. My day job, I run a creative agency so never would I imagine that I would actually be hanging out with bankers, doing the total opposite of being a creative agency. About four years ago, when I saw what was happening in the industry and how money was moving and decisions were being made, I was like wait, what is this? What's private equity? Who are these people?

I actually started taking meetings just to learn because I realized that I'm a service style business and kind of have to follow the money. I started doing that. I started meeting with people and I realized business is driven in a way that I had no idea. When I was just an employee of a beauty brand I had no idea this was happening behind the scenes. That education taught me so much. It's really incredible. Really special time in beauty. I feel like we're in a beauty boom.
Rachel RoffYeah. It's interesting, if you learn a little bit about my childhood and the struggles I went through and how I ended up in the business I'm in. We are in the middle of looking for funding and talking to people, which I think should happen, be finalized in the next three or four months, hopefully, crossing our fingers. It's just kind of like I'm at this moment where I'm looking back on a lot of struggles I went through growing up, in my life, and my purpose and just how it led me to this perfect moment where this very niche business that I was given a very hard time about is exactly what investors are looking for. We have such a strong point of difference. It's a retail product line. It's in the skincare industry. I don't know. I'm not the most religious person, but I'm still like, God really put me through everything for a really huge purpose and it's amazing.
Jodi KatzLet's go backwards in time. What would you like to tell us about your childhood?
Rachel RoffI wasn't the happiest child. I suffered from numerous skin issues, being really overweight. I had a large nevus mole on the side of my mouth. It made me look like I was walking around with chocolate on my mouth, and acne, and just felt very uncomfortable in my own skin. Then, you know, I was always drawn to diversity. I came from a Jewish family. I'm not like strict Jewish. We had some people that dated outside of their race. I definitely dated outside of my race at a young age and had friends of a lot of different colors. I think I was always kind of treated like I was just different and then on top of that I was very unhappy with my appearance.

When I started going to dermatologists and aesthetician for help years ago, I quickly learned this is what I want to do when I get older. I want to own a med spa and be an aesthetician so I have all the tools I need at my fingertips, to help me look my best, and I can help others. My parents weren't too into that. They were more traditional professionals. They were lawyers and really wanted me to go to college. I think they thought that I would lose that vision once I got into college, that I wouldn't go to aesthetician school. They felt like it was like being a nail tech. Not that there's anything wrong with being a nail tech or aesthetician. They just thought it was beneath me.

When I moved from the Bay Area to Charlotte, North Carolina to go to UNC Charlotte, I transferred colleges. Then after college I still wanted to pursue being an aesthetician. When I entered the industry, the south has a very, very large African American population compared to California. California's kind of mixed up, but it's a little bit of everything. The south is half black and half white. When I got into the industry and started going to school, I noticed that there was no education, no hands-on experience for darker skin [inaudible 00:08:50] such a large darker skin population.

Teachers weren't teaching us about it. The aesthetician in school were predominantly white, so we weren't getting hands-on experience. It was just kind of this known thing, you don't touch darker skin because it can burn and it's just difficult. I felt like, after digging, it was a combination of fear because darker skin is more reactive and I do think prejudice because I also think the aesthetic world has traditionally been kind of older white, wealthy women. That's who you kind of cater to, especially in the med spa world, specifically.

I just thought it was crazy and I wanted to be able to help the people around me. My best friend was half black. I've got friends of all different nationalities. I personally decided to educate myself. I was ordering medical dermatology books from Amazon and taking whatever advance education classes I could. After working in the industry for a year, I was like, I'm going to open a med spa specializing in darker skin. People thought I was crazy. I think it just came from multiple races. It wasn't supported. People just were like, you're not black, people aren't going to want to support you. It's going to be awkward, or we don't think that the dollar will support your business. It's just all this stuff and I was like nope, I'm going to do this and I know that I can prove everybody wrong and I can provide this great service.

I opened my med spa and it was a huge success from the beginning. The hardest part of both my business has always been that they've grown faster than what I could keep up with and sometimes my skill set. I'm blessed to say that a lot of the things that I went through, even though it grew at a fast rate, I did deal with a lot of people that I had to go the extra mile to prove that I did have the skill set, even though my skin color didn't represent most of my clients'.

Through the years, again, I proved myself. It's been an amazing journey. Roughly about six years ago, I decided that I wanted to start my own skincare line, but it was not for the purpose of going into retail or having some large direct to consumer website. It was really just for my medical spa. I started out initially private labeling products, except for these three cleansing bars. I had been selling PCA Skincare and had developed a really large demand for their cleansing bars and I knew if I got rid of all other skincare lines at my med spa, I would need to still carry something similar.

I like the cleansing bars, and I like the concept, but of course I wanted to make them my own formulas. I kind of did a twist on theirs, added some different actives, and came out with my three cleansing bars, and the rest of the line was private labeled. I had developed quite a large celebrity clientele. A lot of different celebrities would travel from out of town who were African American to get my services because they had heard that we were good. They had started posting when they would get Botox or laser hair removal, or chemical peels. They would grab products and they would post them on their social media and then people started calling, saying "We want to buy these products too".

We put together a website, and then six years later here we are. I've stepped away, obviously from private labeling. I would say 90 percent of my 30-plus Q line is all custom formulations. We launched in Target about a year and a half ago and now we're in Ulta and CVS, so we're in about 3000 retail doors. Our website has not plateaued at all from expanding retail, which was something I was nervous about. It's just everything's growing really quickly. We're growing at about 100 to 150 percent year over year.
Jodi KatzYou just covered so much ground.
Rachel RoffI know. I'm sorry.
Jodi KatzWe went from childhood all the way to the incredible success you have now. When you and I got on the phone this morning, we were talking about how you have to work hard to make this happen. It sounds really easy, right? I had this idea, I opened a spa, people poo-pooed me, but I just kept going and look at me now. It's not that easy, right? I think it's really important for people to hear about the sweat and the tears that go into building the business because there's no overnight success. It just means that you don't know the whole story.

I want to go way back. When you were a child and you were really struggling with your skin concerns, did your parents have any resources? Were there any places to take you to or were they sort of like oh, this is just the way it is?
Rachel RoffNo. My mom's very problem-solution oriented. She's a lawyer. Plus, growing up in California, luckily I wasn't in the south. I'm 37 now. I would say roughly 20-25 years ago is when I started going to dermatologists and aesthetician. California was ahead of the game and had really developed that industry already. So no, she found great resources for me.
Jodi KatzThen, do you have any memories of being super inspired by those physicians or aesthetician that were able to get you out of that crisis mode?
Rachel RoffYeah, there was an aesthetician at, it's called Rejuvenate. It's in Chico, California. They were a med spa in my dermatologist's office. Her name was Renee. She was my aesthetician and I remember being in her room, looking around the room and being like, one day I'm going to have a room just like this with all the little equipment. I loved it.
Jodi KatzYou went to school and then got the four year degree that your parents really pushed for, is that right?
Rachel RoffYes. Yes.
Jodi KatzThen you got out of school and said, "Yeah, but I'm doing this anyway."
Rachel RoffYes.
Jodi KatzYou said that you opened a business, but how soon after college graduation did you really say okay, I'm going to make a viable business out of this?
Rachel RoffFour days after college, I went to aesthetic school. I was in aesthetic school for about seven months. Then I worked for a brand new med spa that opened right out of aesthetic school. A chiropractor, his wife was a patient at a med spa and he just thought it was going to be easy, great money so he bought a $100,000 laser that, by chance was a YAG laser, which is one of the few lasers that are safe for darker skin. He didn't even know it was safe for darker skin.

He hired me. He put the business in a location nobody could see. It was deep in an office park. He had no marketing budget. I just sat there day after day, but I learned all about the device that I had on my hands, so I started treating some guys that I knew for ingrown hairs on their neck. They were African American men who had very bad ingrown hairs on their neckline. I took some amazing before and after pictures, and I went to all the different barber shops in Charlotte and handed out before and after pictures. We started to get some clients and I was able to convince the chiropractor owner to give me a budget for a commercial on an R&B radio station. I wrote the commercial myself and the phone started to ring.

I just went to my parents and I'm like, you know, this is my idea. This is my dream. You're never going to appreciate it. We had planned on me possibly opening a med spa in two or three years, after I really got my footing in the industry, but I think that I don't want somebody else to steal my idea of specializing in diverse skin. They said if I wrote a business plan, which I got this software called Business Plan Pro, and worked with it, a bookkeeper to just crunch a bunch of numbers so I could submit it to them and they would possibly co-sign on a loan for me. That was what happened.
Jodi KatzOh, that's cool. And how old were you at the time?
Rachel RoffLike 23?
Jodi KatzWow. So young!
Rachel RoffSo young. I think that there's an advantage to being that young, even though you make a ton of mistakes and you're not as in touch with your intuition about people and situations as when you get older. But you're so fearless. I feel like people, as they age, they want to start things, new ventures, but you just weigh out all the responsibilities you have. I just had no responsibilities. I think the one thing that's always helped me be successful is failure was not an option to me. I was like, I'm so into proving people wrong and I had been through a lot of hurt about men and friendships and being bullied growing up, and I think I also had this huge drive to really prove to people that they had really got me wrong. They had misjudged my potential.

I think that was a huge advantage. I still kind of have that chip on my shoulder that I think drives me. At the same time, I think just being young and not having a mortgage, not having kids, I was like I'm just going for this.
Jodi KatzRight. So when you were working for the chiropractor, you just pounded the pavement. Was that your idea, to do the before and after photos and go door to door?
Rachel RoffYes, that was all me. I did that even when I opened my business. I was very guerrilla marketing. I remember having receptionists drive me around neighborhoods while I hung out the window, putting flyers in mailboxes. I went to every salon, every barber shop in Charlotte and offered to teach a one hour class on skincare so they could help their clients and then refer to me.

I was not somebody who wasn't intimidated. Every time I opened that barber shop door, I'd be like, take a deep breath and be like you can do this. That's what you've got to do when you don't have a crazy huge marketing budget.
Jodi KatzYou were a very young woman with a light skin tone, walking into a barber shop saying I'm an expert on dark skin tones, and men. I can help you, right? Were people like, come on, get out of here, or were people responsive?
Rachel RoffYeah, no. It was hard. There's some moments now, but it's just, what I tell myself is it's no different than somebody wanting to be an oncologist who's never had cancer. You can have a passion that is regarding a problem or a situation that you don't personally have, but you still want to lend your passion and your expertise to it. I wasn't going to let the dysfunctions of our world, regarding race and stereotyping, stop me from my journey.

I can't do that, even though it was hard. I feel like pioneers and game-changers in the world, to really move the wheel and be known is doing something great and different. It's going to be hard, and it's going to be uncomfortable.
Jodi KatzIt's so interesting that you mention that because when I started my agency 12 years ago, I thought it was going to be easy. I don't know why I thought that. I didn't think that people around me worked hard. I would look at people who were established and I admired and I'm like, oh it's not hard for them. That's what I was looking for. Oh, I'll just say I exist and the work will come and maybe the work will be a little hard, but running the business and [inaudible 00:22:23] won't be hard because look, these other people don't have it hard.

Boy, did I have a wake-up call, for the past 12 years. Now I realize that nobody has it easy. Even if you're a super celebrity, then you have all the pressures of everyone watching you. No matter who you are, if you want it you have to hustle.
Rachel RoffThere is no such thing as easy money. If you get money really easy, it's usually temporary or some major catch. I tell a lot of people, most people with a lot of money are working really damn hard for it. I'm not saying that there's not a lot of people who are working really damn hard for a lot less money too. I'm just saying, the people that I know with a lot of success and a lot of money, they're working hard.

Just taking about being transparent, which I've been doing this kind of girl boss tour with WeWork Working stations all over the country. Me and these three girls who also have beauty brands in Target have been going around talking to women entrepreneurs that come to listen to us talk. I think the things that I've pushed the most is just being transparent to people, I feel I never want to deter somebody from being an entrepreneur or opening a business but I think that there's this hype around being a girl boss or a boss just in general. Like, this Instagram hashtag.

At the end of the day, I really think people need to be more obsessed with being happy than they do being a boss or having a business because I actually think that at the end of the day when we're on our deathbed and we look back on how we spent all of our time, it's going to be measured by how happy we really were and not how much money we made or whether or not we were known as the big boss or this big entrepreneur. It's really hard. I would say out of the last 13 years, I've spent much more time being depressed, stressed and unhappy than I ever have being happy and proud.

All of this success has come at such a high price to my personal life. It's not healthy, the amount of stress that I carry on me. By all means, there's people who probably handle it better than me. Although, I think I handle it well because I get up every day, attempting to have a big smile on my face and be like, today's going to be a new day. I'm very resilient, but I haven't dated for years. Just always worried. Always just having to be kind of like the bulldog for my company. I'm a little bit over being the one that's always having to have difficult conversations with labs.

Now I'm not necessarily managing all 50 people in my company, I'm managing the higher level people. Still, just the day to day conversations of calling people out, or just fighting for what my company needs to get to the next level. It can be really negative and exhausting. Sometimes I just want to be this happy-go-lucky, positive person that spews nothing but compliments and positivity and I can't do that or else my company won't get where it needs to be because there's a lot of people that take advantage of you or don't do what they say they're going to do. I have to boss up and speak up and it's draining and negative.
Jodi KatzWhat can you do to continue the trajectory that suits you the best, and find more joy in your work? What are your options?
Rachel RoffI mean, obviously exercise and vacations. That sounds crazy, but doing things to take my mind off of work. Now I'm into watching Netflix series and putting my phone down, just to really try to tap out. Definitely, as my company grows, hire a couple key people that take over fighting for me, which is happening. I have a COO, this guy named Brad Jones. He's definitely, in the last year, taken probably at least half of the really difficult conversations off my plate, but they've grown at the same time.

Maybe a couple years ago, it was 100 difficult conversations I was doing all 100. Now it's 200 difficult conversations, so he's doing 100 and I'm doing 100. Definitely, the goal is to build up a C-suite that takes a lot of this pressure off of my plate. I also think it's a little bit unrealistic. One day, hopefully, I get a huge check from this company and I think it will happen because I've endured a lot of this.
Jodi KatzWhen you say that, it makes me think, in your heart you see all the time and the sweat and the tears as the investment. That's the emotional investment, right? That's going to get paid back with money. And then maybe freedom.
Rachel RoffYes.
Jodi KatzWhen I started thinking about my business that way, it took the pressure off a little bit. Whatever I'm doing now, I actually take segments of time. Right now I'm super busy. I'm joyfully thrilled to be busy. My team is busy, we're working on amazing things, but I have these sort of emotional buckets that need filling up. Like quality time with my kids, really spontaneous silly time. Maybe binging on a series, or going to the gym more. So I have these buckets that I want to fill up, but I can't do it for the next three weeks because I'm just jammed back to back.

So I look on the calendar and I see, oh that last meeting on a Thursday in two weeks? After that, I get back to normal. And I just sort of accept that as the investment in my time right now, then I get to have my kind of normal days. So I look at them in little bits and not years because that's just overwhelming.
Rachel RoffYeah. I know. You've just got to take it in like, a couple weeks at a time. One thing that is a coping mechanism that really helps me is I always have a vacation planned. The second I'm done with one vacation, I'm already planning another one so I can be like, I can just make it till that vacation.
Jodi KatzGreat. Yeah. It's so nice to have things to look forward to like that. That are outside of work. On this track that we're talking about, you're a single mom and running these businesses. That's an added pressure, right? You're not just running businesses. You're taking care of people that you love. Tell me how you handle that.
Rachel RoffIt's really hard. I do feel like I'm giving her 90 percent of what she needs, but it's coming at the cost to me and what I want to do and probably why I'm not married or dating. It's just, between the two companies and all the traveling I do with them, and working, I'm always rushing home to her. I'm always making sure on the weekend, when I'm being asked to go do things, I'm like, I worked all week or I was out of time, I have to spend those two days with her, from sun up to sundown. Like I said, and I love her to death, but of course there's part of me that's like, I want to be at a bar day drinking with my friends! You know what I mean?

She didn't ask to be the child of a single mom home. Or a mom that has two intense businesses that take her out of Charlotte a lot. I just can't do that to her. I do love spending time with her and most importantly, she's so well-behaved and she's so emotionally in a good spot and I know it's because I'm giving her what she needs, and I think I wouldn't be able to handle that if I was having somebody with a lot of behavioral issues or knowing that she was hurting because I wasn't giving her what she needs. I think would be even more detrimental than just the sacrifice of not socially doing what I want to do.
Jodi KatzRight.
Rachel RoffBut yeah, it's crazy. I'm just thinking, I'm 37. Maybe by 45 I'll be able to step back and then I'll get a mini-facelift and then act like I'm in my 20s and just live the life that I missed out on. That's what I keep thinking. I'll be like, I'm just going to pull everything a little bit tighter and just lie and say when I'm 47, I'm 37.
Jodi KatzWell, we get to write our own script, you know? Just because you didn't do what your 30 year old friends are doing doesn't mean you can't do it when you're whatever age. We don't have to abide by these cultural norms. We get to decide for ourselves.
Rachel RoffI know. But I do sometimes feel like, I don't know, I missed the era of being able to go out in cute little slutty dresses. I missed all this, building this company. I'm never going to get that back. I'm sure if I had been living that life, it wouldn't have been everything I imagine it to be.
Jodi KatzThe last thing I want to talk about is this idea of going from a direct to consumer business where you literally are having your hands on your consumers in the med spa and the fans, being able to get product right from your shop. Then all of a sudden you're in Target, and now you're in 3000 doors around the world. What has that transition been like for you?
Rachel RoffIt's been amazing, but it's been difficult strategically. We were a prestige priced brand and prestige position brand, like a professional med spa line with price points, cleansers in the high 20s to serums in the 70s, and value kits in the upper 100s. When I got the opportunity with Target, obviously they were like, if you want to do business with us, you're going to have to change your pricing strategy. It was very nerve wracking to me because we were doing a couple million dollars online in sales. Not profit, but just gross. But it was a very small company. I had like, three employees. I was making a great living, but we were this very small business.

I worried that if I lowered all my price points, and I didn't do well at Target or that this money that I was getting from my website would stop and I wouldn't be able to support myself or live the life that I had been used to. After a lot of soul searching, I talked to Lisa Price who is the founder of Carol's Daughter, what we decided to do, because I didn't want to pass up the opportunity, I really felt like my consumer was in Target. That's where the main place my consumer was. We decided to initially launch with just our cleansing bars in smaller sizes at cheaper prices.

That worked and it did really well but then there was another problem. They wanted more products. The more assortment I give them, the more I worried it would cannibalize on my prestige priced products online. But we ended up delivering, giving them some unique products, some exclusives, and did not find that it hurt my online business at all. If anything, the online business kept growing. Now that retail is expanding and they're just wanting more and more, the whole smaller size for cheaper does not work across the board for us. There's really only some specific SKUs it works for, so we are in the middle of separating our brand into two lines.

We will have the Urban Skin Rx line, which is in retail and then we have some of those products on our website. Then we are re-branding some of our long-time, higher-end, more expensive formulas as pro-strength by Urban Skin Rx. Then we're also adding to that. There's a lot of formulas that I can't, I'm a stickler for formulas and really, really high levels actives. I would say the worst thing somebody can say about my brand is "It was too strong for me". That's okay. I can live with it being too strong for some people rather than not working.

We're adding chemical peel pads and derma planing kits with peel pads and really strong retinol that I just can't make. The cost of goods are just too expensive for CVS and Target and Ulta. The really interesting thing is after we prove to be this amazing selling brand for Target, what do you think entered in the space this year? Two more multi-cultural brands, and what do you think their price points are? In the high 20s and 30s. That's the hard part of being a pioneer brand, on one hand it feeds my ego. Not my ego, but makes me so proud like, because of our success, it's opening the doors to more brands. Target and retailers are seeing that the multi cultural skincare category is an amazing opportunity, but they also were very nervous with my price points but we're stuck in that pricing.

It's like, I'm pissed off but I'm happy. At the end of the day, our online business has grown tremendously. We're growing. But yeah, in hindsight my cleansing bars didn't need to be $12.99. They could have been so much more. My serums didn't have to be $19.99. They could have been $29.99, you know? It still would have never worked at the exact pricing we're at with our prestige line. We would have always had to separate into two, but we wouldn't have had to go as cheap as we did.
Jodi KatzRight. It's so fascinating. I'm so grateful that you're willing to share all of this behind the scenes information. Like I said, it takes the behind the scenes story, the real story is incredibly motivating and inspirational. We all need to be reminded that there's no overnight success. It doesn't come easy. We all have to work for it. I'm super proud to know you, and so inspired by you. I think that the opportunities for you and whatever your vision is, whatever it becomes, are really endless because you have that fire in you.
Rachel RoffWell thank you. I feel like it too, and hopefully you can come to my wedding one day.
Jodi KatzWell, you will make time to date. That's the other thing. We can talk another time about this, but I think that yes, things are hard. It's hard to drive a business forward, but then you have to think about what's the most important thing to you, right?
Rachel RoffYou need to start where like, beauty and brains date each other. You need to start like, that app.
Jodi KatzThat's so interesting. Maybe we will. We were actually talking about having a job posting board because so many people who listen to our show are really ambitious people. It made a lot of sense, that kind of alignment with job hunting, but maybe we should have a dating tool. Like, smart people who want to find each other faster.
Rachel RoffGo for it.
Jodi KatzI look forward to it. We can talk offline and brainstorm on that one. Thank you so much, Rachel, for sharing your wisdom with us today. For our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview. Please subscribe to our series on iTunes. For updates about the show, follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast.
AnnouncerThanks for listening to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™ with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.
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