Episode 100

For decades, legendary makeup artist and cosmetics mogul Trish McEvoy has led her namesake brand with one focus: The customer. From making pro-quality brushes accessible to consumers to innovating the iconic Makeup Planner, she’s changed the landscape of beauty to the advantage of women everywhere. Hear how she’s managed to maintain the independence of her brand in a marketplace noisy with investors and acquisition while doing it all with a sense of joy. Part of our Podcast in Residence series in partnership with Saks Fifth Avenue.

AnnouncerWelcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™ hosted by Jodi Katz, Founder and Creative Director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi KatzMy name is Jodi Katz. I am the host of Where Brains Meet Beauty™ podcast. Isn't this space beautiful? Have you all been here since the escalators were revealed? Or is this your first time? It's incredible, right? It's so breathtaking. So thank you so much to Saks Fifth Avenue, Beauty On 2, and the whole Saks team for letting us do this incredible event here. So we have a little bit of housekeeping to do before I call on our star who I know you're all really excited to hear from.

The first thing I'd like to say is that there are goodie bags, okay. Who wants to win one? Filled with products, right. So I'm going to ask you all to take out your phones because it's in your hand already. Show me your phone. Please turn off your wifi. If you're trying to connect with the wifi in here, it's a little spotty. So you'll have more success if you just shut it off and use your data. To be entered to win one of these beautiful gift bags of Trish McEvoy products you're going to submit a question on today's Instagram post on Where Brains Meets Beauty™ podcast feed.

So take a second to find our feed and find today's post. And that's a picture of me. You can see I'm trying to channel spring with my wardrobe choices. So if you have a question for Trish, and I'm sure you will, please be curious, don't be shy, submit it as a comment on today's post. Three of the questions that are asked, Trish will answer at the end of the presentation and those people will win gift bags. So you don't want to miss out on that opportunity. Okay.

So just a little bit more that I need to know about you before we start. So I know there's a lot of Trish fans out there. Raise your hand if you came here because you know Trish and you love Trish. Yes. This is most of the space. I just got to know Trish recently, and I'm super grateful for the opportunity to get to know her better and to bring her story to you today. So this episode ... Right now we're recording a podcast live. It is not being broadcast live. So it's being recorded today, you are first to hear it. And then it will go live next Wednesday, and that's when you can download it and tell your friends. So you are literally first here, and we're super excited about it.

Before I call Trish out, I want to introduce you to what we are as a podcast, what is Where Brains Meet Beauty™? We are a podcast rooted in the beauty industry and the wellness industries, but we don't talk about tips and tricks. We talk about journey. So life journey, career journey, and all of our guests are really incredibly generous with the intimacy of how they share what's in their mind-space, how they navigate the world, how they deal with stress, and how they celebrate wins. So this is a podcast that's really for anyone who has a job or wants a job, which is essentially everybody. So tell your friends. And now we're going to get ready for our star.

Tonight we are joined by Trish McEvoy. For decades Trish has led her namesake brand with one focus, the customer. She has maintained the independence of her brand in a marketplace that is noisy with investors and acquisitions. She does this all as she radiates joy. Please welcome Trish McEvoy. Thank you for being here.
Trish McEvoyAw. I so respect you, my goodness. This is so much fun.
Jodi KatzThank you.
Trish McEvoyJodi, I just so respect you. What you've done is so amazing.
Jodi KatzWell, I have a very long list of questions. I wonder if we're going to get through them all.
Trish McEvoyWe will, Jodi. You're efficient.
Jodi KatzSo I want to start with an easy one, but one that our listeners really love, which is, how did you spend your day today?
Trish McEvoyHow did I spend my day today? At the Javits Center looking for makeup chairs, then meeting with my marketing team, then looking at the fabulous new restaurant here, and I was looking so forward to being with you. And I worked out.
Jodi KatzYou did? When did you work out?
Trish McEvoyFive o'clock.
Jodi KatzIs that your normal?
Trish McEvoyIn the morning.
Jodi KatzSo what time do you set the alarm for?
Trish McEvoyI don't set an alarm, darling. I just wake up.
Jodi KatzWhat time?
Trish McEvoyFour-thirty.
Jodi KatzFour-thirty. And then do you have a date with a trainer? Or you just get yourself-
Trish McEvoyA date with an app.
Jodi KatzAn app.
Trish McEvoyNo one should see me at five in the morning. A date with an app.
Jodi KatzIs that your daily routine?
Trish McEvoyYeah. She's looking at me like I'm crazy, which I am. I use Jillian. I use Peloton. There are so many. AK ... What is it, Lizzie?
Jodi KatzAnna Kaiser?
Trish McEvoyYes. AKT-
LizzieAnd you mix it up.
Trish McEvoyAnd I mix it up. But I'm very ... I love it.
Jodi KatzIs this a seven day a week routine? A five day week routine?
Trish McEvoySeven, honey. Every day of life I've got to work to keep this thing together.
Jodi KatzWhat else is a daily morning ritual for you?
Trish McEvoyAre you ready for this? Write this down. F-Factor. Phe-nom-enal! F-Factor. You can stay in the best shape. You don't have to worry about eating or not eating or any of that. It fills you up. Have you heard of F-Factor?
Jodi KatzNo. What is it?
Trish McEvoyOh. You've got to interview her. She's phenomenal. Look on Instagram. F-Factor. It's protein and fiber and honey. It works! You stay in shape. You get everything out that you want to get out, and, honey, you look good.
Jodi KatzThank you for sharing that.
Trish McEvoyI don't think this is the direction Jodi wanted to go.
Jodi KatzIt is! It is. Well, I asked that question because this morning I woke up at two-thirty in the morning, not with any intention-
Trish McEvoyChildren.
Jodi KatzAnd I couldn't go back to sleep, and I think about this question, what keeps other people up at night? I'm not sure what it was for me. It could've been this, the event or somebody told me Mercury is in retrograde. So that's going to effect my day, but I'm curious as to know what keeps you up at night.
Trish McEvoyWell, Cassandra, what can we do better? Poor Michelle, what can we do better? Poor Sinetti is everything in order? Poor Lizzie, is everything in order for your wedding? I think about the people that are in my life. I think about what I have to do. I think about what I'm not giving the consumer that I have to give to the consumer. And more than anything, I think it's so important to be curious. I'm always thinking of the next thing.
Jodi KatzAnd do you keep a notepad next to the bed?
Trish McEvoyNo. I have a phone.
Jodi KatzSo you keep the phone next to the bed when you sleep.
Trish McEvoyHoney, yeah. I use my thumbs. They're not supposed to do that, but I do.
Jodi KatzI think these are important questions because it helps me understand how other people navigate the world. So I'm-
Trish McEvoyA crazy person.
Jodi KatzWell, I try to disconnect. So I-
Trish McEvoyI never disconnect.
Jodi KatzWhy not?
Trish McEvoyI don't want to disconnect. I'm gonna be disconnected a long time. I wanna be connected as long as I can be connected. It's the way I feel.
Jodi KatzI feel the pull, though. I feel the seduction.
Trish McEvoyYou have children. You are 20 or 30 years younger than me. Honey, I am not going on the same path as you. You are at the beginning of yours. I'm more, yeah, at the other side of it.
Jodi KatzOkay.
Trish McEvoyI don't have kids. I don't have to make breakfast. Don't have to get them out to school. Don't have to babysit for grandchildren.
Jodi KatzSo when these things keep you up at night does it feel-
Trish McEvoyNothing keeps me up at night. I wake up and I think of it and I go right back to sleep. I have no sleep issues.
Jodi KatzOkay. So-
Trish McEvoyI have a chip.
Jodi KatzA chip.
Trish McEvoyA chip. Lizzie. Where are you?
Lizzie:I'm right here.
Trish McEvoyCan you come up here?
Jodi KatzLizzie, come on up.
Trish McEvoyOh, there you are. Lizzie. Can you come up here? No. I know you're not supposed to be on this podcast, but can you talk about my chip.
Lizzie:So me and Trish say that she has a chip because she has boundless energy, boundless ideas, she is ready for anything at any time. We land on a plane, we go to a meeting, we go to another meeting. No food, no sleep, and she's the energizer bunny and we all-
Trish McEvoyF-Factor. We have F-Factor methods-
Lizzie:Her chip one day.
Jodi KatzYes. I think that's worth a round of applause for sure.
Trish McEvoyIt's just called genetics. Some people are tall, I've got energy.
Jodi KatzSo I would like to bottle some of that up, and apparently this is also a commercial-
Trish McEvoyYou have it. Are you kidding? Well, I just love it. And I love Saks Fifth Avenue, and I love your fabulous podcast.
Jodi KatzThank you. So I want to really dive deep into you because you radiate joy.
Trish McEvoyHow deep? How deep?
Jodi KatzVery deep. We're gonna go far. And you've seen all the questions ahead of time, so you're game. Let's start at the beginning. Why beauty?
Trish McEvoyI love joy, and I always found joy in makeup. And, for me, I was so attracted to it because my grandmother owned a perfumery, and that's where I really learned the joy of beauty, the power of beauty.
Jodi KatzAnd what are those key memories when you were five years old, six years old?
Trish McEvoyThe key memories ... Well ... Seeing women come together, one. Two, women walking into a location and walking out feeling differently. I think it's a very bonding moment for women, and now it's wonderful. It's not only women, it's also men. You walk in you feel one way, you feel whatever, and you walk out and the fantasy is a reality.
Jodi KatzWell, I had my makeup done by Tamara who's here tonight and-
Trish McEvoyShe is beyond fabulous, Ms. Tamara. She does shoots with me, she does weddings with me, she does events with me, and I think this could be a promotion for you.
Tamara:Hi, I'm Tamara.
Jodi KatzIn fact, there's a woman here, Renee, who you did her son's wedding.
Trish McEvoyRenee, wait, wait, wait, wait. Renee. I knew Renee before her son was born. I knew Renee before she was married. I knew Renee when she ... I think you were 20. And what makes my life so fabulous is that so many of my clients add generations coming to us, and it's a pure gift. I feel that in beauty you really live the life with your clients. It's like, "Tell me about people that you're close to," the people that you're closest to are the ones you share their journey with. Not that they've told you their journey, but you share their journey. And that's what beauty and being in the beauty industry can do for us.
Jodi KatzWell, you mentioned bringing people together and look what beauty does tonight.
Trish McEvoyThank you all for coming.
Jodi KatzAnd Aleni was getting her makeup done with Michelle who's also a superstar-
Trish McEvoyOh. Wait, wait. Michelle. Are you kidding? The best hair. The most patience. The most energy. She's a fabulous cook. She does everything perfectly, and I am so lucky to have such a wonderful person on my team. She cares. I had sent a friend of mine that had just had radiation and she came back and she said, "I feel that I'm not even ill after seeing Michelle". And that's the power of beauty. It really is. It's very very powerful.
Jodi KatzAnd just the four of us were together. Two makeup artists, two clients, and everything I wearing is Trish.
Trish McEvoyI should hope so. I am very happy, Jodi.
Jodi KatzPink Jasmine fragrance.
Trish McEvoyI love you, love you, love you.
Jodi KatzIt's over there. The tester is right there.
Trish McEvoyKeep speaking. I'll be completely quiet. Tell them everything you're using.
Jodi KatzSo it's actually not a lot of product.
Trish McEvoyI don't believe in a lot.
Jodi KatzSo, anyway, this idea of bringing people together. So it was just four of us. It was pretty quiet here when we were having our makeup done, and the way that your team talks about beauty, it really is very different. There is an incredible intimacy, and it wasn't a "do this", "do that". She put the mirror in my hand and said, "Look", "Watch, and then do it"-
Trish McEvoyThis is not a massage. You have to do it. And what did you do?
Jodi KatzI did most of this side of the face, and then she fixed it.
Trish McEvoyNo.
Jodi KatzI had a little challenge with avoiding the water line, and then I did my triangle of-
Trish McEvoyLights.
Jodi KatzLights. And then some blending. So-
Trish McEvoyA lot of blending.
Jodi KatzPutting the tools in my hand was actually really interesting, and it made me think of probably something that I experienced in one of my first visits to a makeup counter when I was younger, but that I don't actually see anymore. Right? There's a lot of mandating. Right? Or try to do following, and I didn't feel like I was just a canvas, right? I felt like I was really a part of the process, and that intimacy is really special.
Trish McEvoyIntimacy is everything. I think we have the most intimate profession other than going to a physician or a masseuse. It is very ... And we're touching your face. We're teaching you how to do what you do every morning. It's very very intimate. It's very personal.
Jodi KatzSo I wanna talk about something that you mentioned to me when we first met, which is this idea of visualization. When I said, "Why beauty?", you were like, "I chose it", right, "I visualized it". But I wasn't really understanding at the time what you were saying. Explain that to us.
Trish McEvoyI have always been a visualizer. And what does that mean? It means that I've always thought of my life fast-forward, and I've always thought of my future self. I have always been in the moment, but I've always thought of my future self. And I knew that beauty was the direction that I wanted to go because it felt good, it made others feel good, it came very very easy to me. And I knew that I wanted a very independent life. I don't like people telling me what to do, and I don't like asking people to do things for me. And how do you live that kind of life unless you're an entrepreneur. And you can understand what I'm saying.

And so, for me, being able to help women feel good about themselves ... and thinking forward, I knew I had a gift, I knew it came easy, and I just knew I could do it. And I did it one person at a time. I didn't go with trends. I didn't go with where other people did it. I truly did it one person at a time, and Renee is an example of that. And I have so many women that I'm still doing one-on-one makeup lessons on, even though I now have a company, and it's given me the most joy in my life other than my family. I mean, it has been a wonderful journey. A wonderful wonderful journey. Thinking of myself as a young person, where I was and where I wanted to be, and I was very lucky that I had very good companies that I worked for. And then I started my own when I was 25.
Jodi KatzYou were not born in the U.S.
Trish McEvoyI was born in Dublin, Ireland. I can't tell you which street. I can't tell you which hospital. I can look on my passport, of course, and figure that out, my birth certificate. But I'm half German and half Irish.
Jodi KatzAnd you grew up in Germany?
Trish McEvoyNo. You did your homework wrong. Five years in not growing up-
Jodi KatzOkay.
Trish McEvoyBut I lived ... German was my first language. French, my second. English, my third. And I lived with my grandparents until I was five. Then we moved to France, and then we came to the U.S.
Jodi KatzHow old were you when you came to the U.S.?
Trish McEvoy12
Jodi KatzDo you remember it?
Trish McEvoyOh, yeah.
Jodi KatzWhere did you go? Where did you move to?
Trish McEvoyGeorgia, and it was not easy. I learned how to become invisible very quickly.
Jodi KatzSo you moved in middle school, the height of preteen-ness.
Trish McEvoyYes, and I learned to become invisible. It was before Instagram. It was ... Everybody wore the same thing, they acted the same way. And my mother was European. I definitely learned how not to fit in in a way that was comfortable.
Jodi KatzAnd why did you feel that you needed to do that?
Trish McEvoyBecause it was the south in the 60s, and I just didn't want to play the game.
Jodi KatzAnd how old were you when you felt a shift instead of wanting to be invisible, wanting to be seen?
Trish McEvoyThe minute that I left. And I loved the south, and I loved the people that were in the school. It was just that I had a very strict mother. I couldn't do anything. She was European, and anyone that's every had a European mother, it's no. No to this, and no to that, and no, no, no. And when I left home it was yes, yes, yes.
Jodi KatzSo as a kid growing up trying to be invisible, but also probably wanting to make connections.
Trish McEvoyOh, no. I didn't want to make connections-
Jodi KatzReally.
Trish McEvoyI was very comfortable being invisible.
Jodi KatzSo you didn't want to go to the birthday parties and have sleepovers and-
Trish McEvoyI just wanted to focus on what I was going to do.
Jodi KatzAnd at that time-
Trish McEvoyI've never been someone that had ... What I didn't have is not what I was going after, you know?
Jodi KatzBut at that young age of 12, 13, 14, 15, what was that that you were going after?
Trish McEvoyLeaving Atlanta, starting to work for a cosmetic company, and starting my own business.
Jodi KatzSo that's pretty phenomenal, right?
Trish McEvoyNo, no, no. I don't think so. I think anyone, and I'm not going to play the immigrant card, but anyone that has ever known an immigrant or has been an immigrant knows that feeling. It's a dream, and you know here you can make that dream come true.
Jodi KatzAnd you have.
Trish McEvoyI sure as hell have.
Jodi KatzSo I've been thinking a lot about our conversation, and what's so compelling to me about the business that you've built today is the independence that you have. And I left our first conversation, and I immediately reached out to my friend who runs Indie Beauty Expo, and I'm like, "She's a superstar. She's the Elvis of indie beauty". Right. That's sort of ... I thought of it that way. People would bow down and go crazy and go nuts around you.
Trish McEvoyNo. I just think that I am an example of ... You have to ask yourself how do you want to live your life. What's important to you? Is fame important? Is money important? Is being recognized important? None of that was important to me. What was important to me was living a life where I felt really good about myself, living a life where I could do it my way.
Jodi KatzSo at 25, you created your first products?
Trish McEvoyI was very, very lucky. I worked for Lauder and I worked for Revlon. They were wonderful building blocks for me and I knew that I wanted to start my own thing. How do you start your own thing? The first thing you got to look for is, what are you good at and what isn't out there? I was good at makeup, I was good at skincare, but what wasn't out there were professional makeup brushes, so I came out with five. I took a little ad in Vogue. I think it was a quarter of a page. In fact, then, it was a very big deal for me and I worked out of my apartment, but it all came together.
Jodi KatzSo you saved your own money from your jobs to be able to launch these brushes and pay for that ad?
Trish McEvoyWell, no, not really. That sounds like a good way of doing it, but I didn't do it that way. I was 23. I had a job in product development and marketing, and prior to that I worked for Lauder in the field and Ultima II. I helped to run New York and I loved it, and then I had a tragedy. My 12 year old brother died and it was a tragic death. I realized, life is short, and so I just stopped working for a while.

I had a little money saved up. It sounds like I saved up for a makeup brush company, I did not, and I met my husband. My life before my husband was in black and white, and these are not original words. Gilda Radner said the same thing, so I don't want you to think I made this up. I'm not that good. When I met him, truly my life went into technicolor and it was magic. I knew together we could build something, I knew that the world was my oyster.

One day, I was walking down Madison Avenue and I walked into a drug store. There was a soda fountain there and a lot of fabulous people. Someone said to me, "Well, tell me about you." And I told them about what my background had been and they said, "Why don't you work here?" I'm like, "Cool, but I only want to work part-time." They offered me a job. It was Boyd's Pharmacy. I was paid probably $.50, and within three months, I was booked, I was doing makeup in the evenings.

It was a blast, but I knew I was not going to stay at Boyd's making $.50. So I went in and I said, "I can change your company. I can really do something with this, but I need a raise, and if you listen to what my ideas are, it could be phenomenal." They said no to the raise, they said no to my idea, and I walked out with my book of people that I had done their makeup on for 90 days, and I started my business.
Jodi KatzThat's awesome.
Trish McEvoyIt's such a cool story and it's my life.
Jodi KatzYou have this confidence about yourself and this optimistic attitude. You mentioned to me that you think being the grandchild of Holocaust survivors sort of put this in you, right, this idea of not to take things for granted. I really feel that from you.
Trish McEvoyWell, I was brought up by ... I'm a real mutt. My grandfather, German Christian; my father, Irish Catholic; my mother, half Jewish; and so you look up mutt in the dictionary, that is me. I grew up very, very fortunate with my grandparents because they had really built a life for themselves and five years after the war with perfumery and restaurants, I had this glorious life. They would tell me never to take anything for granted because no matter what you have, materialistic things can be taken away very quickly. That the only thing that truly matters is who you are and how you feel about yourself because that can't be taken away, and that's what gave me the confidence.
Jodi KatzIt's such a great lesson.
Trish McEvoyFor me, I think that's what truly made me the person that I am.
Jodi KatzThat might fuel the trip, it might give energy to the trip. It's almost like your hybrid car…
Trish McEvoyI think I'm present, I think I appreciate people. I never carry a garbage can around. You know what I mean by garbage can? People that carry on everything that ever happened bad in their life and they carry around and they keep blaming you. They never blame themselves, they're always blaming you. I'm not, I just, something doesn't go right, you just let it go.
Jodi KatzSo I want to get back to the building the business thing because I have some friends in the audience that are building businesses and are faced with this point in their business where like, "Well, if I wanna grow, I might need an investor, which means that I have someone breathing down my throat. Or do I just keep riding this wave?"
Trish McEvoyI think you have to do everything that's best for you. If you're looking for money and if you're looking for people that can grow your business at a faster rate, to have investors is wonderful, to have partners is wonderful. For me, that wasn't so important. What was important for me was my community, my freedom, and to work with people that I really enjoy working with, but it all depends on what your end in mind is.

When I started, you didn't need that much money. There were no cell phones. Nothing existed. We didn't even know what a fax machine was. Nobody had dreamed of it. I mean, I don't think we knew a telephone or maybe a television even then. But, I think it's really a matter of what do you want to do?

I think the first thing is, you've got to really know your craft. That's most important, and don't fool yourself, you've got to then really know your landscape. That's very, very important and you've got to have a following. Without a following, in any business, you really can't go anywhere, big or small.
Jodi KatzSo there have been times, I'm sure, that investors have tried to woo you or private equity wanted to acquire you. In those moments-
Trish McEvoyAlmost everybody.
Jodi Katz... So there's a seduction to growing the business that I face in my own business, right? Like I have these visions, right? How do I get there? So there's a seduction and that's sort of why I put my phone in the other room-
Trish McEvoyThere was never a seduction for me. It was a seduction for many, it was never a seduction for me.
Jodi KatzThe growing the business wasn't like-
Trish McEvoyNo.
Jodi Katz... inside of you like that?
Trish McEvoyNo. No. My seduction was, loving my work, loving my clients, and if it took a short amount of time or a long amount of time to make it the best that it could me, small or big.
Jodi KatzThat sounds like patience to me.
Trish McEvoyI have tremendous patience.
Jodi KatzWhere there any times in the past few years or at any point in your growth where you actually thought, "Maybe I will take the offer."?
Trish McEvoyHalf the time I need money. Half the time I'm looking for more money, but you know, it's just, you gotta get tighter, you gotta get leaner, and for me, I just didn't go after that. I didn't go after it.
Jodi KatzSo your goal, it sounds like, is living the life you want to live more than seeing numbers grow on a balance sheet.
Trish McEvoyOh hon, I wanna be number one at Saks Fifth Avenue. I'm not saying I'm not competitive. I definitely fight for being whatever ranking I'm in, in any store every day. But, I just like the freedom of, if I want to do something, I do it and if don't want to do it, I don't have to do it.
Jodi KatzWhat do you think comes with that outside investment? In your mind-
Trish McEvoyI think what happens with outside investment, which is wonderful, they can bring in people that can really help grow your business. With outside investment, you get more expertise. There's a lot of very good in outside investment, there is. And one day I may do that too, but so far, I've held on independently.
Jodi KatzDo you realize how phenomenally unusual that is, 'cause you're so calm about it?
Trish McEvoyI really don't. I think at the end of the day, it's really about, what do you want? And phenomenal is only someone else's illusion of what you are, someone else's view of what you are. What I am is a simple girl with a big heart and big imagination. I love people and that's what it's about for me.
Jodi KatzSo now I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about a challenging topic, which is the passing of your husband. He passed about five months ago and you've been with him a very long time.
Trish McEvoySince, I was 24.
Jodi KatzSo I'd love to hear this story again of how you met.
Trish McEvoyWe met on a blind date. He was supposed to go out with my roommate, and he was a dermatologist. He said, "Listen, I'm very busy. Be here on time. We'll meet for lunch. La, la, la ... " I got there a half hour late. We went to a diner and he was just adorable.

We were one of the first medispas in the United States. When we started our medispa, what dermatologists did was take care of skin cancers and skin conditions. They dried it, they wet it, and then they said goodbye, or the cut it. When we got together, what we did is we made people feel pretty when they left. We were, me and Yurad, were the ones that really opened the minds of people to combine beauty with science and I'm very proud of that. It was a tremendous time.
Jodi KatzHow many years were you married for?
Trish McEvoy38 and I proposed.
Jodi KatzTell us about the proposal.
Trish McEvoyWell, we had lived together four and a half years and we were crazy about each other, but I mean, that question, you know ... He was very funny. We met, and he said, "I want you to know one thing about me," and this is a lesson for every woman and every man in the audience, don't believe what people say. He said, "I'm never getting married." And I'm like, "Cool." I was 24, and at 24, it really doesn't matter that much.

And then we'd been together for four and a half years. We had worked together for quite a while and I'm like, "I really think it's time. Let's get married." And he's like, "Okay, but don't tell anybody." I mean, what do you mean don't tell anybody? Because he wanted to tell his parents first, so that was "don't tell anybody."
Jodi KatzWas it at City Hall?
Trish McEvoyNo, I'm not gonna get married at City Hall, not at all. So, okay, you first think City Hall, now what do you think?
Jodi KatzI think you eloped to Vegas, I don't know.
Trish McEvoyDo I look like an eloping girl? No.
Jodi KatzBut you couldn't tell anyone.
Trish McEvoyWell, no, see, it's all how you hear a story. I couldn't tell anyone until he told his parents-
Jodi KatzAbout the engagement?
Trish McEvoy... I spoke to my mother ... that's why don't tell anyone.
Jodi KatzSo where was the wedding?
Trish McEvoyWhere do you think it would be?
Jodi KatzThe Plaza.
Trish McEvoyAnd how many people do you think I would have?
Jodi Katz350
Trish McEvoyOkay, let me ask, how many of you think the Plaza? How many of you think 350?
Audience Member800
Trish McEvoy800? How many do you think?
Audience MemberA thousand.
Trish McEvoyA thousand? How 'bout you?
Audience Member2000
Trish McEvoy2000?
Audience Member10 people.
Trish McEvoy40 people.
Audience MemberThat's what I was gonna say.
Trish McEvoy40 people at The Pierre. My office was across the street at 800 5th and I lived there, and I only had the closest people in my life, and I worked that day.
Jodi KatzYou worked the day of your wedding?
Trish McEvoyI did.
Jodi KatzWhat were you doing?
Trish McEvoySomeone's makeup and facial, and who knows, whatever.
Jodi KatzAnd then your own?
Trish McEvoyYeah.
Jodi KatzSo I want to talk about a topic that probably a lot of people have faced in the audience, which is grief and moving through grief. What does that look like for you today and does it change every day?
Trish McEvoyGrief is so personal that everyone feels it differently. There's no map to grief. The way I feel about grief is that my best friend went away, and yet ... my best friend's always with me because grief is inside of you, and grief is something that comes and goes. I'm also a big believer in your grief is personal. For me, it's personal, but I speak about it. I feel ... People will say to me, "How do you feel?" And I'll say, "I feel awful," but I am not gonna show it to you. I think that's important too because you have to live life.

You only have today. The memory never leaves, the person never leaves. For me, my husband is half of me, was and is. He didn't choose to leave, he was forced to leave. So grief, we all face it, we're all going to experience it, and I think compartmentalizing everything in life is very important.
Jodi KatzAnd when you're in a moment where you don't want to show it, right? You want to say, "I'm not feeling good, but I don't want to show it."
Trish McEvoyOh, I never do that. I just showed you my feelings one second ago and I recovered very quickly. So, I never make a big deal like, "Oh ... " No, you saw it a minute and I do show it. I'm not going to hide it, but then I move right into my next moment.
Jodi KatzSo you give yourself that moment to feel and then you also give yourself permission to move on.
Trish McEvoyMm-hmm (affirmative). Not to move on because you have to ... you feel what you feel, but then I think it is personal, and I think it's extremely selfish if you are trying to, to others. I just don't do that.
Jodi KatzThank you for sharing that. So I'm sure the audience has a ton of questions for Trish, so Cate's gonna give me the three questions and then if you're here, you have to be in it to win it, if you're here, you'll get an awesome good bag. What is the goodie bag?
Trish McEvoyMy makeup planner with the look of the season, my makeup brushes that give you the look of the season, and my new foundation. And wait a minute, I am lying. Lizzie is saying, "No, that's not what they're getting." What are they getting?
LizzieA gorgeous Carpe Diem planner.
Trish McEvoyOkay, you're not getting all of the above, you're only getting one thing. Okay, and lesson number two, you've gotta depend on other people to help you.
Jodi KatzSo our first question is by @Pelican2300, are you here? Renee.
ReneeRenee.
Jodi KatzOkay, this is a good one. How did you come up with the idea of the planners?
Trish McEvoyI was on vacation in this most fabulous place in Italy, but this most fabulous place in Italy had a beautiful view and small bathroom, and I had my stuff all over the place and my husband said, "There has to be a better way." At that time, I was using a planning system called the Filofax and that Filofax was really the beginning of my coming together with my team and thinking of the make up planner.
Jodi KatzIt's really such an incredible innovation and I feel like people wished they had that idea now, you know what I mean?
Trish McEvoyYeah, yeah, yeah, they've tried to copy it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jodi KatzAre next question is by @IvyCohen. There's Ivy.
IvyHi.
Jodi KatzHow do you see trending makeup style preferences differing between millennials and other generations?
Trish McEvoyOh, I think that the millennials are great and what I think is ... And I think we should all just learn from them. What they have done, which I think is fabulous, is that there used to be an idealized view of beauty. You had to be this height, this body type, and it changed with the generations. The millennials are like, "You know what, we don't want that. We want to be ourselves, and we want to accept ourselves. It doesn't matter if you're blond, dark, light, heavy, in between." I think we should all be like them in that way. But millennials you should save a little money.
Jodi KatzAnd our last question is @LindseyTrop, makeup artist. Lindsey-
Trish McEvoyOh, Lindsey, I saw you at the counter. You're so cute.
Jodi KatzHer question is, what's your advice for makeup artists starting out today?
Trish McEvoyMy advice would be, you have to work with someone that will mentor you. Be it that you go to beauty school and then become an assistant to a makeup artist that does photography or that you want to work in a retail environment, working with someone that's as fabulous as Michelle or Tamara; you've got to find a mentor. It's a very crowded arena, but there's always room for thousands more. You just have to know what you want to do, and in order to know what you want to do, you should try retail, you should try fashion shows, you should try photography. Because what you may fantasize it is may be very different than what it is.
Jodi KatzWell, thank you so much to Trish.
Trish McEvoyThank you.
Jodi KatzThis is so incredible. And thank you to Saks and this beautiful space. So now we're gonna actually conclude the recording, so anyone listening at home you know that now we're gonna shut off the mics. But Trish will be available to greet you if you wanted to come and say hello, and thank you all for being here.
Trish McEvoyThank you, and thank you so much, Jodi. You're fabulous.
Jodi KatzThank you, thank you.
AnnouncerThanks for listening to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™ with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.
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